Ironhead VS. Panhead ?

[devilsvain]

As there are only a few post going right now I figured I'd get the gears in motion.

I'm new to this site so I will say a little about myself. I'm buying my first road bike and Ive been looking at a 73 ironhead sporty for a while now along with an old 49 Panhead. I've never owned a car that wasnt older than me so why would i buy a new bike, makes sense to me anyway. that aside its time for bike talk.

This is what Ive come up with from a variety of sources, does anyone have anything to add to correct or personal experiences or potential remedies for known issues?

Ironhead
Ive been warned about AMF's involvement but Ive found no reason why this is so bad. The ironhead was really hard starting and sometimes just doesn't one day but will the next and the kickstart gear strips easily. There is always something that stops an engine from starting other than "weak electrical" which is the only reason Ive been supplied with.
On the other side this engine has provisions for electric start if your battery stays charged and they have cheap parts that are readily available.

Panhead
Separate trans opens more option, open primary, 6 speed... Pre AMF design and supposedly better quality again ive found no proof of this other than just that statement. The Panhead requires lots of mainentance to keep running but havent figured out what keeps breaking yet. and early versions where 6 volts and had really dim lights. they are supposed to be really hard to start.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have and please keep the discussion technical in nature not about this being a first bike for me.

[devilsvain]

great response man. should have said at the beginning of the post that i do all my own work. Ive been racing either bikes or cars for as long as i can remember and aquired a few skills and tools along the way. This will be a semi daily driven machine and a full rebuild is planned (thats why Im looking now).

So what is the issue with amf anyway? Ive never talked with one bike shop that had anything good to say about the 70's era but no one has any solid reason to stay away from them. was the casting just junk or the QC pretty bad at the time? Ive heard that they leak oil but i have heard that about older ones as well?

Right now im really leaning towards the 49. It does have springers with stock frame and rake. It is pretty well maintained but the guy tried to make it look really old. Asking 8,800 Canadian for it, that worth it? about 10 US dollars.

[MrMarty51]

Definetely go with the pan.Sporties are a bit light for the long haul.
I owned an AMF Shovel for a lot of years.When I drove it from the guys garage it had 1746 miles on it.5000 miles later it started to pick up some vibes so I tore it down,Condensation took out the engine,trans bearings.Was no fault of AMF but the fault of the previous owner as He would come in from driving truck and at -40 or so below zero fire up the heater in His garage to +80 or so for a few days then shut the heater down for a couple of weeks while He was on the road again then do the same thing when he got back in.
Rebuilt the engine and installed an Andrews BH cam,10 over 9.5 pistons and an S&S E along with a set of Paugho pipes and that baby would really roll.I sold it with over 55000 miles on it and did nothing other to it except a couple sets of points,adjust valves and just routine maintenance.
There were a couple of guys around here whom had never owned a harley before but they bought some real nice evos and just once each of these guys started giving Me crap about My POS AMF and not being real nice about it.Another guy did`nt own a bike of any kind and had never owned a bike.
My reply to them was not very nice either,Hey if Ya wanna get nasty with Me thats what Ya get in return,I informed them that if it were not for AMF that they would never have had the opportunity to purchase them nice Evos as H.D. would have been out of business a long time ago.
It was the deep pockets of AMF that kept Harley from going the way of the rest of the American built motorcycles.
As it was explained to Me that AMF did some cheap out things on the sporties such as lighter castings to save money but maintained the quality on their big inchers.
Any how thats just My 02 worth.

By the way Dave Ya did a real nice job explaining the ups and downs of them bikes.Either one would be worth picking up and doing restorations on.

[Kainam]

I think Dave's and Marty's advice here is spot on. A Panhead or Ironhead is not a bike to learn about Harleys on. For parts you would have to go to a small number of businesses that deal specifically with those, where on an Evo or newer, there are so many places that deal with those, you couldn't even list them all.

I'm not saying don't buy either bike, but know what you are getting yourself into first.

[Dinero No Mas]

I rode a '74 Ironhead that too many people turned wrenches on before I got it. Most of them shouldn't have even owned wrenches, much less been allowed near a Harley. By the time I was done with it, it was a pretty reliable, good running bike except for the vibration. I never got it to the point that I could use the rear view mirrors after about 25 mph.

Let me add, in AMF's defense, that it was their engineers who developed the EVO. They were geting it ready and HD got the credit for the innovation when AMF was bought out.

And what really saved Harley Davidson? It was Protectionism at its best. Harley asked for protection by the government and the government raised tariffs on all the imported bikes. The price of some of the Japanese bikes almost doubled overnight, thus making HD "competitive". If it wasn't for that, we would all be riding much more affordable bikes. We might have actually seen some real competition.

[Kainam]

Sounds like what is happening now with Chineese manufacturing, and Tech support from India.

[MrMarty51]

I had forgot about the protectionism act of that era.
On My 76 shove when I removed the engine I completely stripped the bike and down to the bare nothings and replaced every bearing in it and did some improvements on the wiring.Got to know that bike from top to bottom and front to back.
LATER!!!
A friend whom is color blind was trying to rewire His 79 Shovel and asked if I could give Him a hand identifying the wires.I got to the shop where He was working and He had tried to do it one wire at a time.He had browns to reds and greens to blues and it was a real mess.I took one look at it and reached into the headlamp assembly,Grabbed a handful of wires and gave them a solid pull.You should have seen the look on His face. He Hollers NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! and I thought He was a gonna get sick and puke. We`ll never get all them wires back in there so He says.
Took about an hour or so and had it all back together and on the first try had to change the rear turn signal wires around.He never did have any problems with the wiring on that bike after that.

[Badassbrutus]

Sheeeeit grew up on sportys rode em in the dirt and the road early motard I guess its like any thing you put into it and you get something back!plain and simple you gota girlfreind right??If you dont put any time into her youll never get nothin back!!Love sportys a little harder to kick than the big twins and if its stroked youll be riverdancing on the kicker to start it if your a lightweight...
and you got to be carefull about powershifting youll crack the trapdoor and alot of the early years you have to split the cases to fix it..
Now we will move on to my favorite Pan Heads they rule and always have period.I drive a 53FL almost everyday still 6volt with points fires 1st kick just about everytime and when cold 3 prime kicks and 2 kicks to start it sweet and simple I love the look one the faces of the RUBS when I do that! both bikes that you are considering are in my book cool as ice.I like to wrench its a hobby for me and it relaxes me(Keeps me out of jail) I would jump on my pan right now and ride to California with no worries in my mind people say Im crazy but thats how we did it back in the day and they made movies out of it to prove it(EASYRIDER)!! so back to first bike either is a good choice If you have patience and time and and open mind to learn and not scared of elbow grease.Dave said it perfect an old Harley is a direct reflection of it owner in apperance, and condition
If it runs great and its dependable,There is a reason for that and it doesnt happen by accident..

Ps Buy the Pan there gettin harder to find WAIT a minute !!Pans suck ass give me the guys # and Ill have a talk with him lol... and a couple of pics of both my Pans 53FL and 55FL

[Dinero No Mas]

Oh yes. If all things ae pretty equal--condition, price, etc.--I'd go with the pan.

[devilsvain]

I have a deposit on the pan now, stuck out of town for a couple weeks so I cant actually have a look at it for a bit. Thats giving me some time to do some homework anyway.

I very much appreciate the help Ive got the current owner sending me a bunch of pics of the head, cases, fins the works i hope anyway. Maintenance history is totally unknown so what would you guys recommend checking out when i have a look at it? Ive been having a hard time trying to find the original compression these beast put out for a compression check. Usually i use a stethoscope on car engines to hear play in rod bearings but i doubt that would be too effective with a panhead.

Thanks for shedding some light on the AMF thing, QC on the assembly line was exacly what i was figuring was peoples "issue" with the 70's era bikes. However I read somewhere that corners were cut on the heat treating of a lot of the rotating assembly that caused some issues there with cracking rods, heads and the sort. Any truth to that?