cam question - Harley Davidson Forums: Harley Davidson Motorcycle Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-28-2012, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Axton VA
Posts: 7
cam question

Ok guys here it is.My brother has a 1995 heritage softail almost stock.We have been hearing a bit of what i would say is a lifter pecking,he called a dealer and they said that if you hear any lifter noise at all it is bad.Is this true? I have lifter noise in my bike but i have an aftermarket cam.So anyway if i was to put in a say ev27 cam and some lifters can i use the stock pushrods?
jmans72 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-28-2012, 10:56 PM
Senior Member
 
98DARKHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Britton
Posts: 564
stock pushrods will be fine for that cam and are good with stock spring pressure and up to 6k rpm possible alittle more pressure can be used on the springs but not sure how much, that cam is still a bolt in cam so theres no need to install stiffer springs anyways and the power will run out before 6k so you should be set if buying new lifters i recommend johnson hylift
Product: V-Lift - HyLift Johnson lifters for Harley Davidson

98 Evo 83.5ci, custom cam, 44cv, lightened ballanced crank, H-Beam rods, beehive springs, tapered pushrods, johnson hylift lifters, SE slip-ons no baffle, 101.78 hp @ 6200rpm
98DARKHORSE is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-28-2012, 10:59 PM
Senior Member
 
mrmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 690
If you put a bigger cam in you will need to use adjustable pushrods Unless you are replacing the original cam with another stock cam. A little lifter noise is not always bad though it may not be good. When you change to a bigger cam you quite often can end up with some lifter noise which is not bad. It is just the nature of Some cams.
mrmetal is offline  
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-28-2012, 11:15 PM
Senior Member
 
98DARKHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Britton
Posts: 564
i dont beleive adj. push rods are needed for this cam...typicaly they are only needed when you are installing the bigger cams that require high spring pressure and/or have a reduced base circle, even then the proper length non-adjustables can be used as long as you know how long they need to be....most techs push the adj. rods simple of ease for install...you can take them out without removeing the rocker box...unless you plan on doing alot of cam swapping there is no reason to change the pushrods from stock when going to the ev 27...i had the se-11 in my evo and used the stock lifters and pushrods and made 85 hp at 5750...stock push rods are good for bolt in cams stock spring pressure and 6k

98 Evo 83.5ci, custom cam, 44cv, lightened ballanced crank, H-Beam rods, beehive springs, tapered pushrods, johnson hylift lifters, SE slip-ons no baffle, 101.78 hp @ 6200rpm
98DARKHORSE is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-29-2012, 03:41 AM
Grandstanding Member
 
Dave63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 29,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98DARKHORSE View Post
i dont beleive adj. push rods are needed for this cam...typicaly they are only needed when you are installing the bigger cams,,,
Let's clear a few things up.

Are/can OEM pushrods be used: Yes, with what's called a "bolt in cam". Usually a cam less then .515-520" in lift.

Are OEM pushrods recommended: No.

Adjustable pushrods are recommended for 2 reasons:

1.) When installing an aftermarket cam, the ramps have sharper drop-offs due to higher lift and duration, which equates to more valvetrain noise. Setting the pushrods to .140-.150" into the tappet bore keep them quieter then just the .100" adjustment OEM rods are set at, preventing this. As well, the tappet bore can change with different head gaskets or cam cone bushing placement. Anything less then a .100" depth in the bore is gaurenteed a tappet making a ticking noise.

2.) It's easier and cheaper to cut the old stock pushrods out and put in EZ-install pushrods, then it is to yank a gas tank(s), and pull apart 2 rocker boxes and regasket them, just to remove and reuse OEM pushrods.

The cost of the gaskets is half the price of the pushrods in most cases, and if the person is paying labor to have the job done, it'll far exceed the cost of the pushrods just in the added labor.

Without adjustable pushrods, you'll be pulling rockerboxes every time you need to undo a pushrod, for any reason. Waste of time....and money.

Jmans72:

The tappets on Evos commonly will see the front cylinder, exhaust tappet ticking first as they get older, as it's the farthest from the oil pump, and on a harder angle then all the others. Replace the the tappets if installing a new cam, AND the INA inner cam bearing with a Torrington B-138 bearing. The ticking can also be a failing tappet, or worse yet, a failed INA inner cam bearing, allowing the inner cam race to drop, causing the front exhaust tappet to start to make noise, due to lack of proper lash/depth.

It's important to check and clean your tappet screen as well.

__________________________________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional.... ~ Hunter S. Thompson~

R.I.P. Rubberdown. 1971-2012

Last edited by Dave63; 03-29-2012 at 05:42 AM.
Dave63 is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 12:14 AM
Senior Member
 
98DARKHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Britton
Posts: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave63 View Post
Let's clear a few things up.

Are/can OEM pushrods be used: Yes, with what's called a "bolt in cam". Usually a cam less then .515-520" in lift.

Are OEM pushrods recommended: No.

Adjustable pushrods are recommended for 2 reasons:

1.) When installing an aftermarket cam, the ramps have sharper drop-offs due to higher lift and duration, which equates to more valvetrain noise. Setting the pushrods to .140-.150" into the tappet bore keep them quieter then just the .100" adjustment OEM rods are set at, preventing this. As well, the tappet bore can change with different head gaskets or cam cone bushing placement. Anything less then a .100" depth in the bore is gaurenteed a tappet making a ticking noise.

2.) It's easier and cheaper to cut the old stock pushrods out and put in EZ-install pushrods, then it is to yank a gas tank(s), and pull apart 2 rocker boxes and regasket them, just to remove and reuse OEM pushrods.

The cost of the gaskets is half the price of the pushrods in most cases, and if the person is paying labor to have the job done, it'll far exceed the cost of the pushrods just in the added labor.

Without adjustable pushrods, you'll be pulling rockerboxes every time you need to undo a pushrod, for any reason. Waste of time....and money.

Jmans72:

The tappets on Evos commonly will see the front cylinder, exhaust tappet ticking first as they get older, as it's the farthest from the oil pump, and on a harder angle then all the others. Replace the the tappets if installing a new cam, AND the INA inner cam bearing with a Torrington B-138 bearing. The ticking can also be a failing tappet, or worse yet, a failed INA inner cam bearing, allowing the inner cam race to drop, causing the front exhaust tappet to start to make noise, due to lack of proper lash/depth.

It's important to check and clean your tappet screen as well.
i have a question and it may sound silly i suppose but you are saying to seat the pushrods deeper in the lifter to advoid tick correct....but from my understanding at higher rpms where you get pump up on the lifter (where the oil pressure builds to the point where the lifter pumps up and by doing so holds the valve open not allowing it to close fully) wouldnt you want the pushrod on the shallower end of the lifter??

98 Evo 83.5ci, custom cam, 44cv, lightened ballanced crank, H-Beam rods, beehive springs, tapered pushrods, johnson hylift lifters, SE slip-ons no baffle, 101.78 hp @ 6200rpm
98DARKHORSE is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 12:23 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alexander, Ar
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98DARKHORSE View Post
i have a question and it may sound silly i suppose but you are saying to seat the pushrods deeper in the lifter to advoid tick correct....but from my understanding at higher rpms where you get pump up on the lifter (where the oil pressure builds to the point where the lifter pumps up and by doing so holds the valve open not allowing it to close fully) wouldnt you want the pushrod on the shallower end of the lifter??
great point, exactly what i was wondering.

07 FXDB skreet bob
V&H big radius
SE intake w/ k&n cone filter
Drag bars
Relocated license plate bracket on swing arm
Smoked signals
Smoked brake light
EITHER LET EM WIN OR BRING EM HOME GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS!
Slowandrichws6 is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 03:46 AM
Grandstanding Member
 
Dave63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 29,803
Yes, but only in high RPM situations. Especially for what you're looking to do, you can add limiters if that's the case.

S&S makes them, as do a variety of other companies.

A high percentage of the people don't need them and never will. Running the tappets at .140-.150" depth is pretty much industry standard, with no ill effects.

__________________________________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional.... ~ Hunter S. Thompson~

R.I.P. Rubberdown. 1971-2012
Dave63 is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 11:17 AM
Senior Member
 
98DARKHORSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Britton
Posts: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave63 View Post
Yes, but only in high RPM situations. Especially for what you're looking to do, you can add limiters if that's the case.

S&S makes them, as do a variety of other companies.

A high percentage of the people don't need them and never will. Running the tappets at .140-.150" depth is pretty much industry standard, with no ill effects.
its pretty much application dependant then as to where you want/should install the pushrods in the lifters....thats kinda what i had invisioned in my mind but wanted to post it up to see if i was on the right track with my logic

98 Evo 83.5ci, custom cam, 44cv, lightened ballanced crank, H-Beam rods, beehive springs, tapered pushrods, johnson hylift lifters, SE slip-ons no baffle, 101.78 hp @ 6200rpm
98DARKHORSE is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-30-2012, 11:19 AM
Grandstanding Member
 
Dave63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 29,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98DARKHORSE View Post
but wanted to post it up to see if i was on the right track with my logic
Yes....you're very logical.

__________________________________________
When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional.... ~ Hunter S. Thompson~

R.I.P. Rubberdown. 1971-2012
Dave63 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Harley Davidson Forums: Harley Davidson Motorcycle Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome