A question and an Observation

[Knash]

Originally Posted by Dave63

You'll never "flip" a bike (initially) by leaning it too far. What happens are, hard parts will scrape, and as the bike increases lean angle, the parts lift the bike's tires off the road, resulting in a lowside. What happens after that depends on what speed you lowsided at.

Low speeds: The bike slides and stops.

Higher speeds: As the bike slides, it can and usually returns to the tires, and if it grabs hard enough, it can get tossed over.

It's not a pretty sight and even worse of a noise..... especially if it's your bike.

Perfect example; Note the sparks as hard parts start to scrape.

2011 Harley Davidson Lowside Motorcycle Crash - YouTube

I did watch about an hour or so of the Mulholland video's, very cool.

[Dave63]

^^^^ I love those vids. Wish I had a place like that to ride.

[kzoo]

When I scrap the boards on the 04 heritage, i use it as a warning that in about another inch hard parts will start to grab!

[Dave63]

Originally Posted by kzoo

When I scrap the boards on the 04 heritage, i use it as a warning that in about another inch hard parts will start to grab!

That's a pretty accurate statement.

Despite the OEM floorboards being hinged and they'll fold up a little, the mounts are thick, sturdy steel mounts that will scrape as well....

If one of those mounts grabs a handful of soft, summer street, you're gonna get a lesseon in "tuck and roll" really fast.

[lidflipper]

Originally Posted by 000RK

I'm with you Knash....all I can figure is when his leg went under him he lost control from maybe panicking.....at the end of the video when their walking his bike to the side of the road he seems to have to much clearance to be lowered, my RK's lowered 2" and he has more clearance than I do.

These are my thoughts
The crash is due to several things visible right from the start.
1- the rider should have been more to the outside of the curve before he started. Always with speed go outside- inside- outside through a curve
2- Look at the terrible body position of this guy. Left arm stiff pushing his weight to the outside of the turn. Body straight up and sitting center of seat.
He should have had his weight to the inside by sliding on the seat until his left butt cheek was lower than his right. Left arm should have been bent and his shoulders should have been pushed down toward the direction of the turn.

[Knash]

Originally Posted by lidflipper

These are my thoughts
The crash is due to several things visible right from the start.
1- the rider should have been more to the outside of the curve before he started. Always with speed go outside- inside- outside through a curve
2- Look at the terrible body position of this guy. Left arm stiff pushing his weight to the outside of the turn. Body straight up and sitting center of seat.
He should have had his weight to the inside by sliding on the seat until his left butt cheek was lower than his right. Left arm should have been bent and his shoulders should have been pushed down toward the direction of the turn.

Lidflipper your insights are good on this it would seem. So, it comes down to body position. This guy was either unprepared for this turn or too arrogant thinking he had it under control. I watched video's of cruisers taking this turn and they were doing just that, cruisen.... no issue's just enjoying the ride.

When we ride in formation we've come into some major turns and we've decided to do what you've mentioned, start high, go inside and ride out upward. The only exception is when there are multiple extreme and hidden turns, then we slow it way down and ride the line so as the prepare for any cages crossing over the double yellow.

[Rhino40]

Originally Posted by Knash

JPR,

I've watched this video several times now and I still don't get what this guy was doing which caused this crash. Yeah I know he lost control and etc. Is his bike lowered with less clearance? He was in a good turn and then swung too high is seems. This wasn't a turn that seems too hard so I'm trying to figure out forensically what his malfunction was...

Scraping of the floorboards is not a huge issue as they fold up, thus little affect to the chasis or contact patch of the tires will result from this. You will notice in the first part of the video he scrapes the boards several times with zero effect to the bike. What you should notice, immediately before losing control and crashing is the contact of the saddlebag, at that moment the rear tire looses its traction, he plants his foot at this point, but that is ofcourse a futile attempt to save things. You would be amazed at the lean angles a touring bike is capable of, provided there are not hard parts to scrape and upset the chasis.

[Upchuck]

Having gone through a motor officer course on Harley EG with hard bags, it is a matter of body position and a number one killer, of not leaving your feet on the boards. When I go through the course of cones, you have to turn the bike from stop to stop. ( where the front end won't turn anymore) leaning the bike over to make the turn. As you get better, you won't scape as much. As you get faster, you'll scape more. It's all in your riding style. But I try and stay in a upright posture when riding the FLH, not really shifting my butt that much. A couple of students took turns way to fast and in the wrong gear, and stuck the floorboard mounts, which like Dave said will slide untill it hits the hard parts and flips the bike over. Watch the motorcycle police vids of cone patterns. It's pretty cool. Street glides are an inch closer to the ground than an EG?


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[Chief Illiniwek]

Originally Posted by lidflipper

These are my thoughts
The crash is due to several things visible right from the start.
1- the rider should have been more to the outside of the curve before he started. Always with speed go outside- inside- outside through a curve
2- Look at the terrible body position of this guy. Left arm stiff pushing his weight to the outside of the turn. Body straight up and sitting center of seat.
He should have had his weight to the inside by sliding on the seat until his left butt cheek was lower than his right. Left arm should have been bent and his shoulders should have been pushed down toward the direction of the turn.

I agree. Too much speed for this body position requiring more bike lean than it had to offer. Perhaps an inside body position would have required enough less bike lean to make the turn at that speed.

[Tennjack]

JPR Two Bells are fine got 2 on my bike . one i bought when it was new . and a lady friend bought me one down myrtle beach .