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Old 09-23-2009, 08:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Location: Joliet, IL
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Stage 1 Flash on 2010 103cu.inch motor

The Harley Dealers appear to be reluctant to flash the ECU for Stage 1 mapping when I added a Screaming Eagle Air Cleaner and V&H slip on mufflers to my 2010 Electra Glide Limited with a stock 103 cu inch motor. Although the parts are available they are pushing a Harley Race Tuner and Dyno time. Is this necessary or are the dealers just trying to make more money when no other engine mods are planned? I don't want to run the bike too lean.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:51 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Everyone will want you to introduce yourself in the introductions section before posting... FYI.

Well, first off, I think, according to Nightrider (search Google), with a 2009+ bike, you don't have to do a ECU flash or tune to be safe. Performance improvement comes from doing a proper Dyno tune and using a quality tuner, though.

When I had my Nightster, two dealers near me including the one I bought the bike at have said they refused to do a simple Stage 1 flash and would only do a SERT (Race Tuner) and Dyno run. At the time, I couldn't stand that because clearly they make more money when they sell a SERT and do a Dyno run. Not to mention the fact that the only modifications I had made were an air cleaner and slip on exhausts and the Stage 1 flash comes from the factory, so why is it so evil?

They told me they refused to do it because customers would tend to come back stating their performance didn't improve like they had expected. None would show me Dyno before-and-after print-outs to demonstrate how the Dyno had improved anything objectively. Ironically, I ultimately did get a SERT and dyno tune... and I'm not happy. Luckily I got it done in Europe (while touring) at a custom shop where they're good at it, but it's not their profit center so they don't overcharge.

Anyway, the Stage 1 flash is less accurate - a general remap to enrich the fuel mixture. It's not specific to your engine, so the claims that the dealers I went to have made perhaps are not wrong in that a SERT and a Dyno-tune will do a better job. I also think that the Stage 1 flash is intended for 96" bikes, not 103" bikes.

I know Uke's in Wisconsin will do the Stage 1 download. You can apparently buy the Stage 1 download cartridge (like a Nintendo game) on Amazon.com. You will have to call the dealer to tell them what set-up you have and they'll give you a general map to put in I guess. I've never used such a service, but still. I guess you just connect the cartridge to your ECU and bam... flashed. Not quite sure, though. Think it's $70 or so.

You are in-warranty and given that fact that your dealer won't do a simple ECU flash for you, they probably aren't going to allow you to use a PowerCommander or some alternative ECU programming unit. Fact of the matter is, HD's fuel injection is garbage as it is closed-loop. It's better than a carb., sure, but it's garbage. Take a look at the Auto-tune modules like the PC-V with Autotune or, preferably, the Thundermax with Autotune. They'll cost you a pretty penny, but you'll be satisfied!

Congrats on the new bike! If you want to give it away free someday, I'll take it.

My advice... see if they'll let you switch out the ECU for a Thundermax without voiding your warranty on the spot. Despite them not having the power to actually do so, they are the gateway to getting H-D to pay for something if it breaks. If they don't, then I'd suck it up and get the SERT and have it Dyno tuned at an independent Dyno tuning shop (I've heard they do a better job). Provide the Dyno results in full to your dealer and ask them to file them in your sales file or repair file.

Note: I've heard stories of people paying for Dyno time only to be dissatisfied and later find out from another dealer months later that there was no way in hell a proper Dyno run was done on their bike in the past. The dealer must have just done the Stage 1 download, instead... or nothing at all. Get your Dyno results with your VIN number on it and, if you can, be there when your dealership Dyno's the bike so you can see them do it... or at least hear it. Plus it's cool to watch the gizmos.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the Quick Reply

I did get the flash done since I decided to install a stage 1 air cleaner I didn't want the bike to run too lean. It's hard to tell if there is much improvemnet but there is no popping or any indication yet that the bike is running lean. I am still breaking in the bike and don't want to exceed 3000 rpm untill I get at least 500 miles on it and the rings seat as well as the rest of the motor can loosen up a little. I know the flash was installed right and is suitable for a 103 motor so I guess I will just have to wait and see
I have learned there isn't much available right now from after market for the 2010 since Harley has installed a catalytic converter in the head pipes and changed the location and size of the O2 sensors. They expect to have after market fuel management systems and maps for the 2010 HDs soon. I guess I will just have wait and see what's out there. I have been told what I have done to the bike won't void the warranty and can be removed or overwritten if I decide to add a race tuner in the future.
Thanks, Smitty
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