2-1-2, or 2-1, or duals, again... - Harley Davidson Forums: Harley Davidson Motorcycle Forum
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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2-1-2, or 2-1, or duals, again...

I'm sure this question has been posted a million times because I've read a ton over the past couple of weeks since I purchased my 2011 Ultra Ltd. 103, and the more I've read the more I'm unsure as to what I should do.

The bike is 100% stock right now and I want to get better sound and more pep, so the options are to replace the breather/headers/exhaust with:

'Cat-less' header, and new exhaust, or
A complete 'true dual' system, or
A complete 2-1 system

I like the sound of duals, but I've read I will lose low end torgue. I like the torgue of 2-1 (like fat cats) but I've read you lose the 'harley rumble'. So, how much low end torque do you lose going with duals vs. 2-1, is it like a couple of lbs, or is it more like 10 lbs? Is there only a difference on paper, but not really on a 'seat of your pants' dyno? If there really isn't much of a difference between the two then I'd probably go duals. But then, what is the diff between a good free flowing header and slip-ons, vs duals? I understand I'll have better torque with free flowing 2-1-1 headers and slip-ons that duals? Is that true?

And then another thing to add into the mix is that eventually I may want to upgrade the cams in a year or two and I don't want to have to redo the whole system and spend a bunch more $$ to do so. I ride 2 up a lot, and do a lot of longer trips, but I also use my ride as a daily commute so it's a real all around ride.

Any recommendations on what would be a good approach would be appreciated. Oh ya, obviously I'll need to add a tuner and I'll probably go with a MasterTune TTS so if I upgrade cams later I don't have to pay for more dyno work.

Thanks!
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:04 AM   #2 (permalink)
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True duals sound better, but you do give up torque. Just gutting the cat on the stock system will improve exhaust tone. Add slip-ons and you'll be amazed at the difference in sound.
I gutted mine and am still running the stock mufflers and I like the way it sounds as is.
I helped a friend who also has a 2011 gut his and he added Rhineharts and it sounds awesome as well. He's going to give me his stock mufflers to play with to see what I can do with them.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have true duals and straight fishtails on my 09 ultra with a pc5. With the improvement of power and torque over the stock system I am tickled pink. It may not be as good as it could be but its a helluva lot better than it was. And it sounds like a Harley instead of a prius.

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Old 10-22-2012, 12:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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2012 FLHR, Stock mufflers (as in factory stock, no modifications), Jackpot 2-1-2 stainless head pipe, Fuel Moto Pro Billet Air Kit, Dynojet Power Vision tuner, custom tune by Fuel Moto.

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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2-1>2-1-2>duals in the order for best performance
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogDogg View Post
I'm sure this question has been posted a million times because I've read a ton over the past couple of weeks since I purchased my 2011 Ultra Ltd. 103, and the more I've read the more I'm unsure as to what I should do.

The bike is 100% stock right now and I want to get better sound and more pep, so the options are to replace the breather/headers/exhaust with:

'Cat-less' header, and new exhaust, or
A complete 'true dual' system, or
A complete 2-1 system

I like the sound of duals, but I've read I will lose low end torgue. I like the torgue of 2-1 (like fat cats) but I've read you lose the 'harley rumble'. So, how much low end torque do you lose going with duals vs. 2-1, is it like a couple of lbs, or is it more like 10 lbs? Is there only a difference on paper, but not really on a 'seat of your pants' dyno? If there really isn't much of a difference between the two then I'd probably go duals. But then, what is the diff between a good free flowing header and slip-ons, vs duals? I understand I'll have better torque with free flowing 2-1-1 headers and slip-ons that duals? Is that true?

And then another thing to add into the mix is that eventually I may want to upgrade the cams in a year or two and I don't want to have to redo the whole system and spend a bunch more $$ to do so. I ride 2 up a lot, and do a lot of longer trips, but I also use my ride as a daily commute so it's a real all around ride.

Any recommendations on what would be a good approach would be appreciated. Oh ya, obviously I'll need to add a tuner and I'll probably go with a MasterTune TTS so if I upgrade cams later I don't have to pay for more dyno work.

Thanks!
Focus on where you think you will go ultimately, then plan according to that. Going for more often leaves you wanting more. My engine gives me 87 hp and 105 ft.lb. of torque. Torque is at 100 ft lb at 2200 rpm and stays above 100 till 4300 rpm. Pulls hard everywhere I ride. 80 mph in 6th gear is 3000 rpm, right where my torque curve peaks. I ride 2 up almost always. I knew what I wanted and shopped till I found what I was looking for based on others results, bearing in mind subtle differences between bikes, dynos etc. Mine? Stage 2 103" with SE 255 cams, V&H Power Duals, Full Boar mufflers with 2" baffles, Ness Big Sucker A/C, SE Pro Tuner tuned by Harleytuner at Roeder Racing in Monroeville OH. Options abound and there are many excellent choices out there. If I were to do it all over today knowing what I know now, I would have done this:New Products. Why? Because for what this costs and what it provides, one would be hard pressed to beat it $ per $. At 109 hp and 120 ft lb of torque, its not likely you would find yourself pining for more. Check it out.....do the research.....but above all else, be honest with yourself about how you ride, how much of a gear head you really are and then do it all right the 1st time. I started out at 96" you start out where I ended up. 103" w/ 9.6:1 flat tops. The new Andrews 57H or the Woods 222 cams are purpose made for your application. So many more choices now than when I did mine 2 yrs ago! Good luck and have fun!
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_R View Post
2012 FLHR, Stock mufflers (as in factory stock, no modifications), Jackpot 2-1-2 stainless head pipe, Fuel Moto Pro Billet Air Kit, Dynojet Power Vision tuner, custom tune by Fuel Moto.

2012 FLHR Stock mufflers, Jackpot 2-1-2 head pipe, FM Air Kit, Power Vision tuner - YouTube
Nice VID and nice set up.
Running well and not a bazzilion $$$$.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:41 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_R View Post
2012 FLHR, Stock mufflers (as in factory stock, no modifications), Jackpot 2-1-2 stainless head pipe, Fuel Moto Pro Billet Air Kit, Dynojet Power Vision tuner, custom tune by Fuel Moto.

2012 FLHR Stock mufflers, Jackpot 2-1-2 head pipe, FM Air Kit, Power Vision tuner - YouTube
Bike sounds great. Props for a well-done video, too up:

I gutted the factory headpipe then did a SE intake with a Master Tuner. Kept the muffs stock. I am very pleased with the results and get complimented on the sound all the time; it makes it's presence known without setting off car alarms, and I can still hear my stereo without the need for amps!
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm contemplating Vance and Hines Power duals ( I have V&H Turn downs) and I'm not sure If I will go with a stage one using existing oem air cleaner, the Screaming Eagle Ventilator or going with the V&H Drak. I have a '12 Ultra Limited. Any thoughts would be helpful.

I love the sound of Phils ride.
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:03 PM   #10 (permalink)
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After some reading around and going with my gut I put V&H Power Duals and their monster ovals on my '12 FLHX. I'm digging the sound and performance. Might not be as torquey as a 2-1, but the x-pipe design can't take away too awful much.
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