Finally Getting Ready to Upgrade my 80" Evo - Page 3 - Harley Davidson Forums: Harley Davidson Motorcycle Forum
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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alan S View Post
That's what I would do if you still consider the DD6. It's still 1:1 final drive, just like the 5 spd.

It's just math, Kyle. Using a calculator helps.

Sent from here to there.
Yeah but that's where the confusion comes in with the first gear.

The site has the option on a DD6 for a 2.94 that they recommend for the softail, but with a 28 tooth compensator, that makes it potentially as aggressive as the racing 2.8-whatever option of the OD6. The standard option on a DD6 is 3.77 or something that becomes an effective 3.24, but with the DD6, there's no getting an effective 2.94 first gear as far as I can tell.

With a DD6, the only way to get the overdrive is by changing the primary gearing, and that's fine, I don't mind going that route.

But I don't want to end up with a first gear that's too tall or too short with the overdriven primary. It's just odd that the option that's recommended for a softail on the site for both the OD6 and DD6 is 2.94 (and 3.24 recommended for touring models); but is that 2.94 recommendation on the DD6 just assuming you'll run a stock compensator? And their details chart doesn't explain the effective ratios for changing the first gear.

I'm just going to have to call them for clarification.

In the details, it says:
"The DD6 comes in a stardard 3.24 or optional 2.94 1st gear."

Then, right below that, a chart for the standard (no compensator change) at 3.77 and effective ratios (compensator change), with the effective first gear being 3.24. So I don't know if that means ordering it with the 2.94 first gear means the gear is actually higher so that it becomes an effective 2.94, or if it's actually a 2.94 that becomes effectively even less.

I mean, considering the nature of the transmission, I'm sure they mean an EFFECTIVE 2.94, right?

Kyle
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [the red one]
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [RIP 6 Nov, 2018]


You've got to play the hand that you're dealt, and sometimes life deals you a losing hand, well then you're a loser, and you have to deal with it.
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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 06:29 AM
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What tanked on the 6 speed?

Sent from here to there.
Probably just the fact it was a Korean Revtech piece of garbage. I would never own anything else with that brand on it again.

Baker has a much better reputation.
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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I'm going to go with the DD6 and over-driven primary, but here's an example of my frustration below and why I wasn't sure about going with it when they recommended it.

And I will get the 2.94 option, it's gotta be taller than that and be an effective 2.94... it doesn't make sense otherwise.

I asked about the 2.94 first gear in a DD6 and was told "correct, without overdriving the primary is a 3.77 gear..." no, it's not, because overdriving the primary makes a 3.77 into a 3.24, not a 2.94. I mean, was my question not perfectly clear?
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Kyle
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [the red one]
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [RIP 6 Nov, 2018]


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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 12:11 PM
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Probably just the fact it was a Korean Revtech piece of garbage. I would never own anything else with that brand on it again.


Ah. Now I see. I misunderstood. I thought it was the Ultima.

Just about anything Revtech has a bad reputation.

Sent from here to there.
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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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I ordered the transmission today (DD6 with 2.94 first gear).

Anyway, this is the engine section so, I'll keep it relevant. This is as far as I have gotten...

Monday, I removed the heads and cylinders, shipped them out Tuesday. They should be getting to Hillside on Friday (estimated). Then I was too busy that day to get anything else done.

Today, I got the piston retaining rings out, but can't get the pin out. I'm going to try warming up the pistons with a heat gun to see if I can get them out, but it's way too hot for that right now. Heat index today was 106. I spent maybe 7 minutes in total at 5:30 just pulling the lifters/blocks and the retaining rings for the piston pins and I'm already pouring like Niagara Falls. It's supposed to cool off the next few days so one day at 2 am when the temperature is only 80, then I'll worry about removing the pistons.

I also went to Harley earlier and got 2 new head screws and new cylinder studs for the two that came out. I'm not even going to try to get the head bolts unseized from the studs and risk bending them, and new ones weren't expensive. Not installing them though until after I deal with the pistons. One less stud to worry about will make that part easier.

I'm not going into the timing cone or cam chest until everything comes back. I don't want to get ahead of myself and forget how it all came out. Plus, I need to get a new drill to drill out those rivets on the timing cover.
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Kyle
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [the red one]
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [RIP 6 Nov, 2018]


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post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 10:30 AM
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Well, one more thing of why I want to change the transmission...

Without these coming upgrades, the first gear ratio isn't that great. It kind of runs out too fast. Like, I could take off in second gear with almost no lug, though I couldn't take off very fast obviously, but if the ratio was a little closer to second gear, that would have been great even before these upgrades. Almost like the stock first gear is great when my wife was on the back, but riding solo, was a little annoying.

But again, all this gearing crap is confusing and there's no real "explain it like I'm stupid" anywhere. Like nobody can just say "if you got a light bike with a stage 3 Evo and you don't want to alter every ratio from primary to tranny to final drive, go with this option".

It basically boils down to: stick with the stock 5 speed, go with the OD6 and no other drive ratio mods, or go with the DD6 and only change the comp sprocket and no other ratios. But so many that swapped had a 24/37 primary rather than 25/36, so I can't even tell. Then others say 6th is a lug on this or that and keep talking about this and that CI when what really matters is the torque and HP for the weight, regardless of the size of the motor (size changes the torque and HP). Then others say a modded Evo pulls the 6th fine at 75 mph while others say it doesn't unless you do 90 mph.

Like, I just want the stock final drive 32/65, want the same basic feel that I have with the stock 5 speed, and a 6th just for highway cruising at 75+ mph. I'm already going to be getting plenty of a boost from the engine mods, I'm not out to street race.

There's so much contradictory info on the gearing between primary and transmission and then going into final drive ratios.

I might just stay with my stock 5 speed.
hey kyle, have you given any thought to increasing the chain front sprocket one tooth. the stage three should more than handle the increase through the gears and give you more cruise at lower rpm. very inexpensive to try also.
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post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I took a piece of emory cloth and tried deburrring the lips of where the retaining ring goes and then heated up the piston head with a heat gun and still couldn't get the pins out. So I ordered a drag specialties pin puller for just under $50 with shipping.

I know I could have just jury rigged one with a long enough bolt, a few nuts and washers and a socket for much cheaper, but I didn't feel like going to the hardware store for a bolt... it's on the other side of town and traffic lately is a f-n nightmare. Dunno why but all this week, been really bad. Not even from the teenagers out for summer, just a bunch of FOGs that should have quit driving 10 years ago and a bunch of middle-aged people that have no excuse for going 20 mph in a 40 mph zone in both lanes. Didn't feel like dealing with it, I almost rage-rammed someone yesterday I was so fed up with it.

I am going out of town tomorrow and won't be back until Monday, so it's not like I can try much else for the time being anyway.

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Originally Posted by tommytailspin View Post
hey kyle, have you given any thought to increasing the chain front sprocket one tooth. the stage three should more than handle the increase through the gears and give you more cruise at lower rpm. very inexpensive to try also.
Yeah, but I just decided to go with the Baker DD6, already ordered. It comes with a 28 tooth comp to overdrive the primary, effectively reducing the taller gears of the transmission. Or are they shorter the higher the number goes? Either way, that's all good to go.
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Kyle
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [the red one]
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [RIP 6 Nov, 2018]


You've got to play the hand that you're dealt, and sometimes life deals you a losing hand, well then you're a loser, and you have to deal with it.
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post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 04:29 PM
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It comes with a 28 tooth comp to overdrive the primary, effectively reducing the taller gears of the transmission. Or are they shorter the higher the number goes? Either way, that's all good to go.
If you compare the old to the new, the newer will be a tad larger.

Are you going to need a longer chain?

Sent from here to there.
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post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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If you compare the old to the new, the newer will be a tad larger.

Are you going to need a longer chain?

Sent from here to there.
Yes, it comes with that too. Stock is an 82p chain, with this comp on a stock clutch basket (36 teeth), it's an 84p chain.
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Kyle
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [the red one]
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [RIP 6 Nov, 2018]


You've got to play the hand that you're dealt, and sometimes life deals you a losing hand, well then you're a loser, and you have to deal with it.
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post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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Oh, here's relevant question while I am waiting on everything to come back...

What's the best way to install the retaining clips for the piston rod when you don't have the special tool for it? Is this a situation where, as long as you're patient and careful, you can just gradually seat them in?

Granted, these will be Wiseco rather than HD pistons, though I imagine it wouldn't be much different of a retaining ring setup for the wrist pin.

Kyle
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [the red one]
1997 Softail Custom (FXSTC) [RIP 6 Nov, 2018]


You've got to play the hand that you're dealt, and sometimes life deals you a losing hand, well then you're a loser, and you have to deal with it.
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