Harley Davidson Forums banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
STAND AND FIGHT!
Joined
·
13,505 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
With my 1550 kit there was some clutch upgrade installed, extra disk or extra sproing,
so while not brutally harsh, in traffic sometimes I get some forearm cramping.

I have considered 2 clutch related mods, wonder if anybody has experience with either?

Is it worth the cost to convert from cable clutch to hydraulic ?

How effective and desireable is the mechanical feature available in 2005 and later
that uses some trick component installed internally to substantially reduce clutch grip pressure?
 

·
COB
Joined
·
1,984 Posts
From what I understand, while it COULD, the HD Hydraulic Clutch mod does not substantially reduce clutch pull. There are some devices you put in line that multiply your effort thus reducing you pull with the cable clutch. The problem that a function of how they work also reduces clutch "throw" so you can have an increase in missed shifts and even more, if you can believe it, clunking from gear to gear. In the old days we just added some length to the clutch arm down on the engine case but that is not an option with the HD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40,799 Posts
Im running the heavy duty spring in mine with stock disks.
 

·
STAND AND FIGHT!
Joined
·
13,505 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
The trick I have been using to make the LowRider clutch seem lighter is to ride the V-Rod every other day. :ride
 

·
ther·a·peu·tic
Joined
·
349 Posts
Mueller Power Clutch

I put a different ball/ramp in my 04 FLHTC which made the clutch pull "one finger" This was a lot cheaper $150 bucks verses $800? for the Hydraulic

Clicky Clicky
 

·
COB
Joined
·
1,984 Posts
I put a different ball/ramp in my 04 FLHTC which made the clutch pull "one finger" This was a lot cheaper $150 bucks verses $800? for the Hydraulic

Clicky Clicky
GREAT post! You should add this to the "Certified Good Stuff" thread elsewhere on the forum (sorry, I can't remember where at the moment).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
I have also changed the clutch ramps to the lighter ones, with the S/E spring in the 95 kit, this and frequent cable lubing does make a noticeable difference. There is also a weight asist style pressure plate that has a much reduced pull at lower rpms, but incresses clamp load at higher rpm's when you need it. IIRC it' called a VPC and made by a company called Aim

http://www.aim-tamachi.com/motorcycle/

I haven't ran one myself but have heard good things about them.
 

·
STAND AND FIGHT!
Joined
·
13,505 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Was that clutch ramps install a DIY project?

Hell if anything that costs anywhere near $150 can be done w/o labor cost,
that'll be a good mod.

Anybody interested in a simultaneous online DIY install party?
Preferreably with at least one attendee who Knows
pretty much what they're doing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
not a bad job to do, you have to r&r the right side cover of the trans to access the ramps and a good set of snap ring plyers to remove the old ramps. ramps and soft spring are part of H-D easy clutch kit. I wanted to stay with the S/E spring so I bought only the inner and outer ramps, Don't have the part# handy but was way less than 150. Also should replace cover gasket. toughest part on mine was r&r of the exhaust (dresser) also will need new gaskets for that too. when done you will need to adjust clutch and top off the trans lube. do your clutch adjustment before reinstalling the pipes, just incase the cable comes unhooked from the lever while installing,
 

·
STAND AND FIGHT!
Joined
·
13,505 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
This brings an old thread back to the top bacause I have new info to share.

When this thread was new, I was considering converting from cable actuated cluth to hydraulic on my 2005 LowRider, I'd asked if anybody knew if it actually made the clutch pull easier, or just offered reduced friction.

I haven't done the install yet, but I have the kit in hand now and I can see that there is definitely a significant hydraulic "leverage" effect involved.

The piston in the clutch master cylinder is smaller than a dime, about 1/2" or 13mm roughly, I haven't seen the piston but looking at the drawing and the completed clutch master cylinder assy I'm guesstimating the dimensions.
The dimension I can see, and what convinces me there is a significant reduction in work at the clutch lever, is that the diameter of the piston in the sidecover is more like an inch, or 26mm in diameter. Because of this, I'd expect substantial reduction in clutch effort, even without counting the elimination of the cable friction. Just to simplify the math, I guess the working piston has a diameter of 13mm and the worked piston a diameter of 26mm, if so there will be a 4 to 1 multiplication of force, giving a very significant reduction in clutch effort. Sweet.
 

·
Faster is Better
Joined
·
21 Posts
Only problem with the Burly Easy Boy Lite kit is, the spacer they provide is actually too long in some applications. If you notice in the one pic, after the spacer is slipped over the threaded part of the clutch cable end, there are very few threads left showing. It's extremely easy to strip out the trans cover threads by even slightly over torquing the cable. After I repaired / replaced my trans cover, I machined my spacer to half the Burly thickness, (At Burly's suggestion), and reinstalled the cable. Worked fine on my '02 Softail. Yes it does provide substantial reduced effort clutch pull and it's a much cheaper alternative to some of the other options...

V1
 

·
Touch my monkey....
Joined
·
471 Posts
FWIW: I had a hydraulic clutch on my RC51. Although it was hydraulic, it was still difficult to pull if you got in a traffic situation. I got stuck in heavy traffic due to road construction one day, and it was brutal after about 3 minutes of in-out-in-out..... Granted, my Dyna is worse, but a hand cramp is a hand cramp.

How much fluid the hydraulic master cylinder moves is an issue, (Masters are determined by bore and stroke) but another big issue is the springs that hold the clutch discs in place. (respective "pressure plate tension springs)

My point is: Spending a bunch of money on a hydraulic master cylinder and using the same heavy clutch springs, may result in a disappointment if you frequently get caught in traffic.
 

·
STAND AND FIGHT!
Joined
·
13,505 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Spending a bunch of money on a hydraulic master cylinder and using the same heavy clutch springs, may result in a disappointment if you frequently get caught in traffic
Well, I'm kinda caught between a rock and a hard place.
I do get caught in traffic, like every day. But I also can feel my clutch slip some
if I run it hard and shift at redline, so there's no possibility of going to lighter springs.

I'd bet your RC had 3x the clutch spring pressure my LowRider has, I'm not sure what the increase was when they put in the 95 inch kit, it's not the SE race clutch, I think one extra plate maybe?

Anyway, with 1550 cc kit, no cam, no head work, no nitrous, nothing extra, I think the book says I'm at 91 ft/lbs TQ and who knows what HP certainly less, so I'm not really needing a real high performance clutch, but I wouldn't think going down in pressure any is an option either. Anyway, with a 25% discount going on, the parts to do the hydraulic conversion were around $500, maybe I'll find somebody who wants a chromed cable op'd tranny cover and help me recover some $$. There was something annoying to my technical purist side to have that cable actuated clutch, anyway.

At the same time, I bought one of the last few of the 2008 "slipper" clutches Max had at the time for the V-Rod, now that's going to be a supremely sweet deal there. Technically excellent.

I'm far from having the sport bike rider need that my son has, about down- shifting hard into corners, so far as I'm concerned, that's Harley's V-Rod marketing team trying to put some sport bike spin on a technically improved (for Harley) clutch design, when the real new/different feature emphasized should be lighter clutch actuation, thanks to only 4 clutch springs instead of 5, and still dramatically improved grip, because the "GRIPPER" design will convert at least 30% of any torque loading you hit the clutch with into increased clutch clamping action

The HD explanatory diagram diagram Max published showed there is a 30 degree ramp/wedge action where the torque applied to the clutch is transferred to the tranny, that wedge results in the increased grip. What I cannot tell, is whether the 30 degrees is from the plane of the transfer shaft, or from the plane of the clutch disks, because one way it'll convert 30% of the torque into increased clampinh force, the other way it'll convert 60% of the torque into clamping force.. A steal at $245
 

·
Touch my monkey....
Joined
·
471 Posts
If your clutch is slipping now, as stated, I agree: changing anything to reduce clutch plate compression is out. At 91 ft/lbs of torque, the clutch is going to be your weakest link.

Personally, I think the hydraulic clutch is easier to pull then a cable, hands down. It's a matter of how much lighter, in your case. Cable actuated clutches have a friction factor that can't be reduced and get worse with age.

As stated, it's also a matter of what clutch master cylinder you use, or comes with your kit. I added a Brembo master cylinder (brakes and clutch) on my race bike. Over stock, it moved more fluid with less effort, than the stock master.

My brake master cylinder was a 19 x 18, meaning a 19mm bore and 18mm pivot measurement. (from hinge pin to the 19mm bore's center.) They make different ones, including a 19x20, 19x16, and other variations. They also make clutch masters....

This different geometry means that the stock lever will need a lower pull force over a longer pull distance than other masters cylinders to yield the same stopping power.

The 18mm lever will require an average 11% less pull force than the 20mm lever, but also needs to be pulled through an 11% longer lever distance to produce the same stopping force at the brake calipers.

With the 19X20 master cylinder, you need to apply the highest pull force, but need the least lever movement to produce the same amount of braking.

My understanding is, in most cases, a hydraulic clutch will allow for the addition of stronger clutch springs, and have the same or less pulling effort than a cable actuated clutch, so at a minimum, you should lose your clutch slipping issues.

Not saying you need to go spend yet another $350 on an aftermarket master cylinder, as hopefully your kit comes with one, rather just explaining (and I apologize if you already knew) why it'll work easier.....

Traffic is traffic............ I hate stop and go traffic and not sure there's a simple solution to owning a hopped up bike, and surviving the slow-go-traffic jam.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top