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Just got home from some older dudes discussing the daze of the sixties and early seventies, some agreed with the protesters and the others said the protesters were at of line....not just ohio?:bike-038:

Lots of racial tension back then too. Thought them old dudes were going to throw punches at each other talking about it!!

 

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Having been in those days , at least people were willing to stand up for their convictions...not like the sheep today who are takers , no , let me change that to ' pieces of shit ' and just sit back and let their country and futures be taken away from their kids and grandkids...:bluduh

But dont get me started...
 

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A very complex time. I was there.

I think everybody agrees that Kent State was a disaster, and most people at the time thought the Viet Nam War wasn't right. And, I think things would have been quite different if there hadn't been a draft. By the way, the Kent State shooting was by the Ohio National Guard, not the regular Army.

Looking back, I think there were 3 distinct classes of young people.

1) People like me (age 21) who did what we were told. I was drafted, so I went into the Army. Our parents were WWII vets, and so conscription into service was something they accepted as the norm.

2) The drug/hippie culture. They didn't want any responsibility for anything. Just wanted drugs, sex, and rock and roll. They sang protest songs (Dylan, Baez, etc.) but I don't recall any of them being violent.

3) The anti-draft cowards. You wouldn't have seen the violent protests if they had not been liable for a draft. For example, probably the same percentage of Americans were against the invasion of Iraq, but you didn't see the violent protests, because nobody was conscripted into service.

Just the way I remember it, but I'm an old man now, so my memory may have faded a bit.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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When Kent state happened, I was stationed down here at Keesler AFB, and I had just finished "Riot Control Training" (everyone e5 or under at the time had to undergo that farce), and of course the immediate question around the office when we got the news was WTF kind of stupid does stuff to piss off a bunch of guys with loaded guns. Strange how it took quite a while before it occurred to anyone that this was an OH S#!T moment for the National Guard, and some butterbar lieutenant was in some really deep stuff. I think in my situation, we led some rather sheltered lives as instructors and the demonstrations, blowing up ROTC buildings, the riots, and all of the crap that was going on just was against everything we thought at the time was right (of course, the bosses felt like you were pretty much to be told what you could think).
I still don't think the riots and burnings and bombings were the right thing to do, but at least now I understand the "other side's" point of view better than I did then.
 

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American Patriot
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A very complex time. I was there.

I think everybody agrees that Kent State was a disaster, and most people at the time thought the Viet Nam War wasn't right. And, I think things would have been quite different if there hadn't been a draft. By the way, the Kent State shooting was by the Ohio National Guard, not the regular Army.

Looking back, I think there were 3 distinct classes of young people.

1) People like me (age 21) who did what we were told. I was drafted, so I went into the Army. Our parents were WWII vets, and so conscription into service was something they accepted as the norm.

2) The drug/hippie culture. They didn't want any responsibility for anything. Just wanted drugs, sex, and rock and roll. They sang protest songs (Dylan, Baez, etc.) but I don't recall any of them being violent.

3) The anti-draft cowards. You wouldn't have seen the violent protests if they had not been liable for a draft. For example, probably the same percentage of Americans were against the invasion of Iraq, but you didn't see the violent protests, because nobody was conscripted into service.

Just the way I remember it, but I'm an old man now, so my memory may have faded a bit.
You echo my recollection spot-on. Did my service for Uncle Sam (Army) 1967-70 as did my brother (disabled Vietnam Vet) and would be proud to do it again. My step-son is in the Army getting ready for his 3rd. deployment to Afghanistan.
 

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My dad volunteered for the draft in 1964(the year I was born). He was sent to Korea. After Korea his unit was slated to go to Viet Nam. At the last moment their orders were changed. Who knows why. I never asked him why he joined. I think he just felt it was the right thing to do. When I left high school, I joined the Army. I did my service time because I felt it was the right thing to do. I'm not sure how I would have felt in the years you guys had to make your decision. I know I love my country and if it cost me my life to make it better for my kids I would do it all over again.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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Just got to remembering when I came home and had that 1-A in the mailbox replacing my 2-S. I was annoyed and probably scared a bit, but I went to the enlistment center and signed on the dotted line: (I'll fool you...you can't draft me for 2 years, I'll enlist for 4). Well, being underpaid and under orders all that time did a miraculous thing for me, it made me grow up. I was a 20 year old kid when I went in, and I came out a totally different person. It actually made my old man and me closer, and that alone was worth it all, but I have to say, the Air Force snatched the puppy out of me and made me into a productive man. You could probably say the experience saved my life if not changing it to a positive direction.
 

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i also came of age during vietnam era. shameful how returning vets were treated. i am glad now that we are supportive of our troops even when our government makes ill advised decisions. we learned a lot during those times. i am not sure things in this country are as bad as they were in the late sixtys, but thats a matter of heated discussion.
 

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I'm another child of the era, maybe a bit earlier. I figured that if I had to go into the service that I wanted to have a chance a picking what I wanted to do. So, before Uncle Sam's invitation arrived, I enlisted. Yep, I traded 2 years for 4 years. Of those 4 years (64-68) I spent 2 1/2 of them in Vietnam. Those of us that were in the service during that time couldn't understand why the American public was so against the GI. It was like your family had disowned you. At least that's how I felt.

But I think those 4 years where the best thing for me. I grew up, had a better idea of what I wanted my life to be and was willing to work for it. None of us want our children to be put in harm's way, but the military does a great job of giving them some maturity and backbone.
 

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Those of us that were in the service during that time couldn't understand why the American public was so against the GI. It was like your family had disowned you. At least that's how I felt.
+1. When I got out of the Army, and was applying for jobs, I never put down that I was in the service. If the interviewer asked where I'd been for the previous 2 years, I'd tell him, but I didn't volunteer the info.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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Those of us that were in the service during that time couldn't understand why the American public was so against the GI. It was like your family had disowned you. At least that's how I felt.

But I think those 4 years where the best thing for me. I grew up, had a better idea of what I wanted my life to be and was willing to work for it. None of us want our children to be put in harm's way, but the military does a great job of giving them some maturity and backbone.
The ones who were calling us "Baby Killers" and did the nasty stuff they did [to us] were the ones who evolved into the Nancy Pelosis and Diane Feinstupids of today. We all prayed that one day our CO's would turn us loose on these idiots, but they never did.

I believe the vast majority of us here who lived through this or similar would agree on the beneficial side of military training: self-reliance, industriousness, discipline, love of country, etc. Some of us that didn't at least got raised right, but as I look at today's gimme generation, I can't help but think that when the draft went away in the '70's, we took away a tool that prepared our citizens to be greater than they would have been, and the results are being seen today. I wouldn't be happy sending my kid or anyone else's kid off to war, but I would know that most of the problems we see today with the younger generation XY&Z or whatever they call them this week would be minimal.
 

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I remember the times well. I grew up in Central California in a little town called Exeter. It's about 40 miles south of Fresno and was a product of the times. We protested everything and smoked anything. The times were definitely anti-establishment.

I remember that we were going to be different and make a difference. Funny thing is that when we all grew up we became the very thing we protested against. Go figure.

I was drafted in 70 and upped for 4 yrs. Probably the best thing that could have happened to me besides getting married in 69. I believe there should be a draft now. These young people who have no respect for our country would soon change their attitudes and gain some respect for authority. Just one old mans opinion.
 

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Steve, It was an honor to serve our Country and to serve with men like you and others on this forum. Let me say to you, thank you too. With all it's warts, it's still the greatest country in the world and I'm not going anywhere. If it was necessary this old guy would stand up again with no reservations.
 

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I remember those times as good and bad. Got my "Greeting" letter in Jan 67. Ran down and volunteered for the draft which gave me a R.A. prefix on my serial number. I thought it would help me get a desk job in Germany. I didn't. But it did get me to Viet Nam in the Arty. And that, thanks to someone, got me out with the Inf in a F.O. party for the next 3 years... So I stayed in until I retired in 93.
 

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I don't know what it is, but I've never been comfortable when people thank me for my service. To me, I was just doing a job that needed to be done. If I hadn't enjoyed my time in the Navy, I wouldn't have stayed in 22 years.

Having said that, I still take the time to shake hands with and thank Vietnam and WW2 vets that I meet. I have heard some incredible stories from WW2 vets, especially from when I was stationed at Pearl Harbor, HI. Simply incredible men that faced overwhelming odds.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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Pred, I'm like you...sometimes it makes me feel uncomfortable, but then, I'd rather have someone thank me than throw a bag of dog crap on my clean uniform or spit on me while I have orders to smile and take it. I do believe the recent custom of thanking the vets and current wearers of the uniform came about indirectly because of the bad stuff that was done to us years before. I have no problem thanking these guys and gals now or buying them lunch or even a cup of coffee when I get the chance.
 

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Agreed KD. Very agreed!
 

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army 69-71 us56844880. fu{k those college commies.. i got spit at once & someone got their face broke. i stand at the ready to fight for my country at the drop of a hat. i too am an old fart, but just as onery as ever:spar:bigguns:2guns:draw:bat:bash:box:USA
 
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