Harley Davidson Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I upgraded my 2005 FLHTI. My buddy and I installed new cams (Andrews 21G), 95ci pistons (Screaming Eagle & Screaming Eagle gaskets), and a power commander (downloaded close map to match my set up). Had the cylinders bored to match the pistons and the heads cleaned and new seals installed. Everything else was left stock. All was good for the first 500 miles. Now I’m getting white smoke coming out of the exhaust at cold start-up. It last for a about 30 seconds and then goes away. Too much smoke to be condensation. Everything else is okay, no funny smells, bad noise, or bad throttle response. Does anybody have any idea? Maybe bad valve stem seals on the heads?
 

·
Old Member
Joined
·
2,896 Posts
White smoke from condensation occurs at startup on a cold morning, and is most pronounced at idle, until the engine heats up enough for it to go away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
623 Posts
Well since you're not water cooled - rules out a blown head gasket, and it doesn't smell - sounds like good ole condensation to me.
 

·
STAND AND FIGHT!
Joined
·
13,213 Posts
Ya think oil entering the cylinder from a valve guide seal leak on an intake valve
might mix with incoming gasoline well enough to burn so clean it didn't smell
much or look like oil smoke?

Maybe after the valves get hot, the leak would stop?

If that was true, you could probably tell it soon, by oil consumption, and ash on your plug tips.
 

·
Just passing thru
Joined
·
6,636 Posts
05's were noted for valve seal issues...my .02

Agreed.


Check the rear cylinder spark plug for fouling. My buddy had the same issue with his 05 ultra and it fouled out the rear plug but its a piece of cake to get to. He got to the point before he had it fixed that he would change out the rear plug a couple of times on a long ride.

Like Dave said having the upgrade done throws a monkey wrench in the works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
White smoke from condensation occurs at startup on a cold morning, and is most pronounced at idle, until the engine heats up enough for it to go away.
It was in the mid to high 70's when I started the cold motor. Could it be condensation at these temps? I'm still thinking valve oil seal issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
If that was true, you could probably tell it soon, by oil consumption, and ash on your plug tips.
Thanks! I only have about 60 miles on her since I noticed. I'll keep an eye on the oil and I'll check the plugs in a few.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,575 Posts
What color were the valve guide seals you put in? PN #18094-02 (all black) are known to have a leak issue. These were superceeded by PN 18094-02A (black with orange top) which are supposed to cure the leak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
It's possible.... definitely possible, Nathan. Usually worn valve giudes do this, although I'd find it hard to believe that his seals are shot in 3 years. (Not saying it's not possible, though.) Also, according to his words, they went bad in 500 miles, right after the upgrade. Too coincidental, to me.
I had the heads cleaned and new seals installed with the other upgrades. I had an old timer wrench do it. I would put money on it that it was a defected valve seal (because I had him install the seals with the noted issues) before it was poor work of my wrench.
In this case, it appears to have started AFTER the upgrade. (500 miles after) It makes me wonder about ring-gap, and if there's a cylinder that's not sealing, or leaking down. I'd suggest a compression test of both cylinders, dry and wet methods.
We measured twice and cut once before we installed the rings on the pistons. We had two eyes on the gap of the rings. Hopefully this is not the issue. I'll look into the compression test. I assume it would let me know if I has a cylinder not sealing?
FYI.....smoke at start up can also be caused by an overly soaked airfilter element, that's draining oil vapors overnight, (bike leans to the left) into the air intake. If you've done little to anything to vent off some of the blow-by that you get on these engines at higher speeds, this is a distinct issue. Enlarging the return holes next to the heads and venting the oil vapors somewhere OTHER then into the intake can avoid it as well.
I just cleaned my air filter before I put one mile on the upgrade. Ran fine for 500 miles. I don't think this is the issue but I'll take a look at it. Hopefully I'm not blowing excessive oil in the air box.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
What color were the valve guide seals you put in? PN #18094-02 (all black) are known to have a leak issue. These were superceeded by PN 18094-02A (black with orange top) which are supposed to cure the leak.
I'm almost 99.9% sure it was the all black. I wish I knew of this issue before I had the seals installed.
 

·
Old Member
Joined
·
2,896 Posts
It was in the mid to high 70's when I started the cold motor. Could it be condensation at these temps? I'm still thinking valve oil seal issue.
If not condensation and you are blowing white smoke as described, you're burning oil. You likely have worn rings and/or valve guides.

Check your airbox, and see if you're slinging oil from the crankcase vent tube.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
If not condensation and you are blowing white smoke as described, you're burning oil. You likely have worn rings and/or valve guides.

Check your airbox, and see if you're slinging oil from the crankcase vent tube.
Going to check my plugs, airbox, and oil level.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top