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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all I had a thread about my primary noise issue a few weeks ago. I picked up a complete primary set from a 2006. I know the Clutch Basket is the same I know the Shifter shaft is different. (Not needed here ) The Primary chain is 2 links larger. My question is about the Drive sprocket. My 1993 has 4 bolts attaching it to the flywheel and the 2006 has 8 bolts. It suggests that the 06 sprocket is a tad bigger than the 93. Dose anyone know or have tried to use the 06 sprocket on a 93 and not had it hit the primary cover? I believe the 93 sprocket is in sad shape. I will be tearing it apart to replace the clutch basket and thought I would ask about the sprocket to see if there is anyone with info on this .:feedback:
 

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Hi all I had a thread about my primary noise issue a few weeks ago. I picked up a complete primary set from a 2006. I know the Clutch Basket is the same I know the Shifter shaft is different. (Not needed here ) The Primary chain is 2 links larger. My question is about the Drive sprocket. My 1993 has 4 bolts attaching it to the flywheel and the 2006 has 8 bolts. It suggests that the 06 sprocket is a tad bigger than the 93. Dose anyone know or have tried to use the 06 sprocket on a 93 and not had it hit the primary cover? I believe the 93 sprocket is in sad shape. I will be tearing it apart to replace the clutch basket and thought I would ask about the sprocket to see if there is anyone with info on this .:feedback:
Not absolutely sure, but I think most of what you have from the 2006 WON'T work in the 93
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Not absolutely sure, but I think most of what you have from the 2006 WON'T work in the 93
So far took it down The Clutch basket is the same Except on the 93 it has a blue mark and on the 06 it has 2 purple marks. Maybe a heavier spring plate for the 1200.Good sprocket teeth on it. The flywheel itself is the same. Problem A magnet was unglued. The drive sprocket is a tad bigger but may work. when switching to the 93 flywheel magnets came lose. I will be getting appoxy for them in the morning. The 93 primary chain is to short so I am going to use the 06 chain. The teeth on the drive sprocket look great as apposed to the 93 sprocket. If worse comes to worse I saw one on ebay cheap in good shape. I am now thinking that I may have had a loose magnet rubbing the stator making the noise but not sure. I will keep the site updated when I learn more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Just a little update I appoxied the magnets on the flywheel. (The Loctite stuff I bought was shelf hardened and had to go back to Ace and get something different. A Gel type There brand) I let it sit all day. I took it out to check for primary chain alignment. I added 2 machine washers to the crank shaft. Although I would like to add a bronze thrust washer to the crank and a machine washer to the clutch basket to give room for the shift shaft (Very Close) I for now decided to just put it together and check to see if I get any binding scraping etc. I used the 96 link Primary chain as the 94 will not work with the bigger sprocket. NOTE: 93 was the experimental year for Harley Davidson converting from chain drive to the belt drive). I have seen on ebay anywhere up to 2005 that use the smaller sprocket with 4 bolts as well as the 8 bolt sprocket flywheel. Note The bolt pattern for the 4 bolt is the same as the 8 bolt and can swap either. As for the Clutch basket it is the same except as I stated the 93 had a blue mark on the spring plate and the 06 has 2 purple marks and I notice after reassembly that the clutch is much easier now with the 06 basket. I fired it up without oil just to see if there was any issue and at that point there was NONE. I added a quart of the used oil for now. There was much less metal shavings when I emptied it last after a 15 mile run but still had some of the noise I described in my last post. I will wait until the afternoon tomorrow and make a few small runs in case the magnets let go due to heat. So far So Good I,m happy to report. The real test is when I,m moving. I Know I may have to have the other flywheel done correctly but if all other issues have been rectified it will be a pleasure. Ride safe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Progress. Put the primary together last night let it sit until after mid day to allow as much drying time as possible before taking it out. A Few things. Ran much better. The bigger sprocket makes a lot of difference without losing a lot of power. The bike shifts better The throttle up and down are much less dramatic. Slow speed driving is much more comfortable with less chugging. Pick up is great. The size of the 2006 sprocket seems to be much more in sinc with the transmission gears. Rode for about 20 miles and No Chain grinding noise but still have what appears to be gear bearing rattle a tad. I may have bent a shifter fork when The woman nearly knocked me to the oncoming lane as described in my last post. PRIMARY NOISE. All in all I am content with it the way it is now. I would recommend anyone with the 4 bolt flywheel sprocket to consider converting it to the 06 set up you will need a 96 link primary chain and an 8 bolt sprocket with 2 machine washers or a bronze thrust washer. Be aware I shift about 2 MPH sooner with this set up about 18 to 20 MPH 1 to 2 28 to 30 2 to 3 etc etc. This also means you will lose a little of the top end but gain more RPM upon take off Less thugging (Engine strain) and more get up and go. One last note the 8 bolt sprocket was used on many sportsters from 1994 to 2014 and many of them got the 1993 4 bolt sprocket as well. Harley Davidson wasn't just throw them out the window so It would be good for you to know which you have in yours. Now just maybe I can focus on getting some cool mods for this 1993 Classic. Hate the setback but first things first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
$*@% Heart breaker. Went well all damn day thought I would do a little round the town and as soon as I was pulling into my yard like the bitch it is there the %$#@ it was. Chang a lang l Lang!~ Anyhow Either I have to shim the basket or I have to rip the &^$R^%$#&^% *&(% ing transmission out and fix this $%^% once and for all. Did I mention ^%$#
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just an update here for those following the threads. Yesterday went to Advanced Auto to pick up some PB weld but found this stuff called quick steel so I could epoxy the lose magnet from the 06 flywheel as I did not feel comfortable with the Ace Hardware stuff. This is supposed to be good up to 500 Degrees. When returning The noise in fist gear was pretty bad so I drove the few blocks back to the house. I repaired the flywheel and waited until today to rip it down again. The oil drain plug had more shavings than ever before. After removing the flywheel and the clutch basket I bought them inside and already had the other clutch basket undone so I could swap some parts. I Undid the 2006 clutch basket and removed the clutches and plates and the asinine spacer that Harley Davidson put in there was so sloppy loose the rivets where about to let go. I replaced it with a clutch and two plates and use the 1993 spring with the set up and I am confident the 2006 bearing basket chain teeth spring are all as tight as a baby's ass. I then removed the 2006 sprocket and reassembled it to the 2006 repaired flywheel. My only concern here is the magnets are a bit thinner than the 1993 magnets and I am considering using the 2006 stator with the 2006 flywheel. That all done I inspected the flipped starter ring gear and see absolutely No grinding rubbing marks that would cause shavings. I had thought about maybe the crank bearing but then the seal would keep the metal shavings in the block and not in the primary case so I concluded it is in the transmission. I removed the belt drive cover and have to get the 1 7/8ths socket to un bolt the drive sprocket. Tighty righty to loosen. I will get that tomorrow and pull the tranny and I,m at this point sure that is where the problem lies. All in all what I did so far to me is not wasted money and time I have learned much and I have parts that I know will keep this classic going for many more years to come when all others are parted out on Ebay. Anyone out there want to donate 5 speed transmission parts I am all ears here. I,ll keep you all updated as I go on. P.S. I also learned today that you can use a 32 tooth belt drive sprocket instead of the 28 to gain the RPM that the oversized flywheel crank sprocket does here and achieve the same result of closer response and handling as I described in an earlier post here. I wouldn,t do both unless you like doing wheelies all day long. :bigguns
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Warning this video is not for the meek the mild or the faint of heart It is truth about your bike and it needs to be seen by Harley Davidson riders everywhere. In case you don,t get it I,ll explain when the rivits go so dose your clutch Stranding you where your at and a tow to the dealer to repair there mistake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvt3W_rkaO0&feature=youtu.be
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
New update: went through hell trying to get the sprocket nut off. Even bought an electric impact wrench with no success. I took my mighty little ion battery drill and drilled a hole through the nut then took my trusty 2 LB sledge and chisel and separated the nut and it came right off. No damage to the threads on the main shaft. Purchased another nut off ebay. Took out the transmission and see nothing other than normal wear of the thrust washers and bearings. I replaced the fifth gear one as I only had one. After thinking about everything and found nothing that would cause the shavings and the noise it dawned on me that the spacer in the video of the previous post was much worse than the original and the shaving where a lot more for just a 10 mile run I conclude at this point that the chain like noise is in fact the two pieces of metal in the clutch spacer chattering not only making the noise but also creating the shavings from itself as well as the inner clutch hub. This thing was so bad I wouldn,t have given it another 200 miles until it failed. It came off a 1200 2006. Much as I would love to redo the trans I just cannot afford it and it should be fine for some time to come. Heed the warning if the rivets let go the clutch will fail and you will be stuck. Hearing this chain like chatter that comes from the primary and nothing seems to be wrong is a clear indication that you need to remove the spacer plate and install a good clutch and two plates in place of that piece of shit spacer. I wish I would have tried reassembly one more time with the repair before removing the trans. Problem possibly solved. I,ll let you know in about a week. I need to rectify the conditions the double side spacer cause and the result of failure. With the clutch in coasting to a stop you can here the noise due to the fact that the spacer is creating friction and rather than the flywheel sprocket pulling the chain rear wheel motion through the tranny is pushing the basket forcing the chain up to the flywheel sprocket creating the chain like noise. Instead of taught on top the tension is shifted to the bottom and the slack is on top between the basket and the crank sprocket. (Rattling) When the rivets fail two things will happen your inner clutch hub will in time be torn to shit (Aluminum vs Steel) and the rivets will tear you clutch plates apart. You will at this point need at least an inner hub and a new clutch set. I hope this helps someone out there realize they are riding on barrowed time. What would make me feel a lot better is if someone would chime in here and say Hey Maxz That makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Update: My main sprocket nut came today in the mail. I Installed the transmission and the primary components. I had to remove the shifter shaft studs in the block ( Not trustworthy ) I added two of the spare Flywheel bolts (Hardend ) in there place and worked like a charm. put the cover on and the exhaust and filled it with new oil. Tired as I was I couldn't wait to give it a run. Started small as I wasn't to sure about the sprocket and can't get over the tiny little bit of spline they used to hold it in place. I now can see how they can strip out easily. I Used my impact gun to tighten it and the retainer fit right on it perfectly. The ride got longer as I wasn't having any issues and went for a long ride 41 miles. I am extremely happy to report that the chain like noise has been found and repaired. I heard absolutely No more of it. Gone with the wind. It indeed was the clutch Basket spacer. that turns one clutch into two half clutches Chatter, drag, wear on both sprockets. Simple fix for you took me a month to find the culprit. Remove it and add two plates and 1 clutch and your good to go. Ride ON! Note: Be sure to mark the block and the shift shaft carrier so you can easily put it back in the same position and not mess up your shifting. Just checked my charging system and everything is at 99% full charge with the 2006 Flywheel and the 1993 stator. (according to my 3 amp 6 12 V slow charger). :hero My opinion on Harley Davidson doing this less than lethal modification the (Old) Newer Evo type engines is that the older Harley's were built so well they weren't making any $ on them and had to come up with something that would in time fail and make the NON Mechanical rider have to bring it in for service. Depending on the motor size and the rider being an 883 opposed to a 1200 lets say the spacer rivets would let go sooner as well as if the rider rode moderately as opposed top beating the crap out of it it would in fact wear sooner. My reasoning in this observation is why the hell would Harley Davidson spend more $ to make this spacer than it would cost them to just put in the extra clutch and 2 plates? Like any car on the market Developers come up with these things that will cause failure over time like exactly when your warrenty runs up and you are then forced to bring it to them. Although the damage is for the most part but not necessarily NON Lethal it causes a significant amount of damage to all of the entire components of the primary and as well as wear to the transmission. Ask me If I recommend you fix it? My answer is the sooner the better. Peace I'm out a here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just a quick follow up: Ran great all day yesterday with no sign of the dreaded noise issue. Only thing now is the previous owner put the front tire on in the wrong rotation. They must have used the Dunlop arrow instead of the indication arrow when installing it. Had issues where the front wheel felt like it was slipping when turning sharp. Always something Always something.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
new update: I have a new thread on modifications and all is going good confy seat may not look bad ass but my ass feels a whole lot better. No noise from the primary after removing the dreaded clutch basket spacer. I mentioned that the 2006 8 bolt Sportster flywheel sprocket was bigger and took a 96 link chain as apposed to the 4 bolt 1993 sprocket 94 link chain that came off. I took a chance on Ebay and purchased an 8 bolt Buell Lightning sprocket. To my surprise the sprocket is exactly the same as my 1993 was. I have a new primary gasket on the way as the metal core gasket I bought lasted through at least 15 tear downs and even now don't leak. Best money I spent in a long time. anyway. although I like the pick up of the bigger flywheel sprocket the lowest I can find for the main tranny output pulley is 27 T This gives me the opportunity to try a 29 or 30 T pulley and get what I like the best. I just think the 27 T is a bit hard on the drive train the valves lifters etc. I would like to find a happy medium. As far as removing the shorty baffles and installing 8 inch ones I had to go from 2 turn out on the carb to 1 1/2 air mixture. If I turn the air mixture in all the way the bike still runs fine telling me that I may have to re jet to a lower size. all in all the bad shit is behind me and the good stuff is coming I,m almost smiling over here. being the 1993 was the first year with the electronic ignition to me makes this bike a treasure waiting to be found someday. For now it,s mine here are a few pics of the buell sprocket and the 1993 sprocket the 2 up seat original from a 1986 on with the blinkers relocated for the saddle bags and a set of rocker boxes I just picked up as mine are UGallly
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just a small update note for anyone trying to swap out 1993 XLH with 2006 flywheel and clutch basket. Had a new James gasket set. was going to install the Buell flywheel same size as my 1993 XLH I am using the 2006 clutch basket. This may get confusing so I,ll try to break it up. first off It won't work. The 94 link chain is to tight with the 93 or Buell flywheel and the 06 basket. The 96 link chain is way to loose. However you can use the 06 flywheel with the 93 basket with the 96 link chain and of course the 06 basket with the 06 flywheel and 96 link chain. There is a difference only in the clutch basket sprocket alone that is just a tad larger than the 93. The clutches and inner hub are exactly the same. I am forced at this point to stick with the 06 larger fly wheel 06 basket and 96 link chain. It cannot be separated using that clutch basket. If I choose to get another 93 clutch basket I will revert back and adjust from the main belt drive pulley. Not many options there either. Sorry I didn't count the teeth and sold my other basket on Ebay 2 days ago. My problem would have been solved right there. Now I understand why some say the 883 and some 1200's seem somewhat matched. Most say it is stroke but it is mostly the ratio of the gearing in the primary. My advise is if you buy a used part make absolutely sure it has the same amount of teeth as your original or you have some insight as to weather you can or cannot get away with it. So far I have found a smaller and a larger flywheel sprocket The flywheels themselves are the same. I found a smaller and a larger sprocket on the clutch Basket but other than that they are exactly the same. Years and bolt patters do not indicate weather or not it is the right part. Sprocket teeth and chain length determines if it will work or not.
 
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