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Discussion Starter #1
I have noticed lately that people do stuff that I think is intentional to put you in harms way on a bike. Like today I motioned for a dude in a sports car to go ahead at a four way...he motioned back for me to go instead so I started and mid intersection he turned out in front of me. Fortunately I anticipated the dumb move.
 

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I believe that most people just don't care. They feel they own the road and you should not be there. Definitely have to be ready for anything.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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I was leaving a stealership in Slidell LA on Monday...a feat I have performed many times....and this particular event started with a calculated blast of throttle and lots of leaning to just get the eff out of the parking lot. Then out to I-10 where the usual entry to the slab was another calculated feat only to be greeted by almost non-moving traffic. Had the notion to roll over onto the shoulder and be an ass and get past the major part of the traffic jam, but I decided against that given the trash on the shoulder that would have ripped an average tire to shreds. Worried about incinerating my engine with the very slow almost non moving line when I finally got to the "crash site" and there were 4 vehicles in the center and left lanes, all respectively mangled, and there were maybe 6-7 young kiddies out in the middle of the site all intently banging away on their portable electronic substitute brains and running back and forth between the 4 or 5 obviously damaged vehicles that were blocking most of I-10. Not having actually witnessed the actual interaction between the invoklved vehicles, I would bet my entire fortune (such as it is) that the culprit was the intensive use of those portable electronic substitute brains that seem to have taken over society and particularly endanger those of us who are actually trying to drive or ride while these a-holes are totally ignoring the rest of us at 70+ mph.
To this day I refuse to text to anyone at any time because I am not going to pretend to be THAT brain dead to the rest of the world. If whatchagots to say to someone is THAT important, get the eff off of the road and talk to said person. This texting while driving BS is getting way to dangerous and pervasive.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I was leaving a stealership in Slidell LA on Monday...a feat I have performed many times....and this particular event started with a calculated blast of throttle and lots of leaning to just get the eff out of the parking lot. Then out to I-10 where the usual entry to the slab was another calculated feat only to be greeted by almost non-moving traffic. Had the notion to roll over onto the shoulder and be an ass and get past the major part of the traffic jam, but I decided against that given the trash on the shoulder that would have ripped an average tire to shreds. Worried about incinerating my engine with the very slow almost non moving line when I finally got to the "crash site" and there were 4 vehicles in the center and left lanes, all respectively mangled, and there were maybe 6-7 young kiddies out in the middle of the site all intently banging away on their portable electronic substitute brains and running back and forth between the 4 or 5 obviously damaged vehicles that were blocking most of I-10. Not having actually witnessed the actual interaction between the invoklved vehicles, I would bet my entire fortune (such as it is) that the culprit was the intensive use of those portable electronic substitute brains that seem to have taken over society and particularly endanger those of us who are actually trying to drive or ride while these a-holes are totally ignoring the rest of us at 70+ mph.
To this day I refuse to text to anyone at any time because I am not going to pretend to be THAT brain dead to the rest of the world. If whatchagots to say to someone is THAT important, get the eff off of the road and talk to said person. This texting while driving BS is getting way to dangerous and pervasive.
Yep

Texting and driving is the equivalent of DWI and should be convicted as such.

I would imagine putting a puzzle together while driving would not be tolerated but somehow the artificial brain use is ok.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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Drake, that's the first time I have seen/heard someone call for a DUI equivalent of texting, but I for one agree, and if enough folks realize this crap going on got in touch with their lawmakers, we could at least begin a process of stopping the ongoing phenomenon that is obvious to everyone except the powers that control the rules we are expected to live by....a lack of a rule here is a non-rule to die by.
 

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Mr.
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I have noticed lately that people do stuff that I think is intentional to put you in harms way on a bike. Like today I motioned for a dude in a sports car to go ahead at a four way...he motioned back for me to go instead so I started and mid intersection he turned out in front of me. Fortunately I anticipated the dumb move.
Why would you motion any one to do anything.

These "motioning people" drive me up a wall, especially in cars. Tinted glass, swatting flies, texting or road rage. You may be a mind reader but no one else has a clue what your hand signals mean if you want to go or you dropped a cigarette in your lap.

There are traffic LAWS governing who's turn it is. Just do it, like every one else. Wait your turn and GO when you are suppose to GO.
 

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It seems like no one knows how a 4 way stop works anymore. I don't know how most people got a driver's license in the first place. I just ride with the understanding that everyone is out to get me.
 

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Gypsy on Parade
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Mr. Jack, I learned that lesson the hard way, many years before cell phones.
Lesson learned, Ignore Hand Signals.
It may try your patience to wait, but follow regular traffic law.
The life you save may be your daughter.
 

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Nocturnal Ancestor
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Was on a old four lane that not many people use because of new hwy, I was heading east in the inside lane, car heading west on their inside lane. Both of us going about 35 MPH and about a quarter mile apart from each other.

I watch as the other car slowly veers from their side of road across the double yellow lines and towards me, the whole time the other car is going slower and slower, and so am I.(just because I'm intrigued).

I move to shoulder of the road almost stopped, and the car is almost on the shoulder with me and barely moving, they get next to me and the occupant of the other car is texting, looks up and slowly crosses back across four lanes were they belong.

Probably the most numbskull B.S I ever seen, glad they were going about 2 MPH by the time they got next to me, but it was a good example of how inattentive some folks can get
 

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Here in UK its been illegal to use a cell phone whilst driving for years now

The law is clear on when you can use a hand-held device behind the wheel.
It is only legal if you are safely parked – and this does not include waiting in traffic or stationary at the traffic lights.
The law also includes a proviso for emergencies: you are allowed to make 999 or 112 calls on a hand-held device while driving, but only if it’s not otherwise safe to stop.
 

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weird member
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I've never had anyone purposely try to hit/wreck me or anything. Usually they just don't see, and I think more often it doesn't matter that its a bike, I see them have accidents and near-accidents with other cars all the time, even big, brightly colored ones. Granted we do get seen a lot less than cars.

But I think the problem is multifaceted.

It first begins with just basic negligence. Nobody drives it into people's heads that they're piloting a 1 ton hunk of metal and plastic around at 30-80 mph, and they don't really get the reality of that. If you had a person out in public, around other people, swinging around a 16 lb steel ball on a 4' piece of steel wire (Olympic sport of hammer throw), people would view that as dangerous even if it were a professional athlete experienced in it that was doing it. Meanwhile, they logically know cars and driving can be way more dangerous and deadly, yet don't have nearly the same level of fear and respect for them. They know it, but they don't feel it. And it's not so much that they should fear driving or cars, just that they should show it the same level of "respect" or and caution that they should, the way they would watching a professional hammer throw being executed right in front of them.

Another problem is negligence and carelessness. The more someone does something, the more confident they become in their ability to do it, and this often leads to them being more careless because "they know what they're doing". Kind of like when you go to McDonald's... if your Big Mac looks like it does in the picture and takes an extra minute to get to you, you know that's a guy that's only been at it for a week, hasn't gotten lazy and haphazard yet. And the more that nothing bad happens to them while driving, the better they think they are at it. This is also part of what leads to other careless behaviors like: texting and driving, not turning your head and looking before lane-changes (just a quick glance in a mirror), etc.

Even then, not many, at least in America, were really taught how to drive and handle a car properly. They're taught gas is go, brake is stop, keep it between the lines and other basics. But things that are taught but don't get used (like emergency avoidance) get forgotten and rusty. People aren't generally taught situational awareness, and are often completely clueless as to what's going on around them and further up the road other than what's immediately in front of them or where they're immediately trying to go. I see lots of dash cam vids where people change lanes into a passing car because they didn't look to see if anyone was coming, they only looked to see if it was clear right next to them where they wanted to go, for example. And when things happen, they're almost always caught off-guard. And even then, it's rare that they take full responsibility, there's always some excuse, or some other reason why it's not entirely their own fault. Even then, a lot of outsiders make excuses for bad driving, like "we're only human, we make mistakes", never mind that such an excuse wouldn't be acceptable if they hit a kid, or if a pilot committed an error that caused a plane crash even if everyone came out unharmed, or a surgeon made a mistake even if nobody died.

Furthermore, if there's a close call but nothing happened and you confront them, it often does no good because they don't know they did something wrong, or don't think they did, or think it's no big deal, and they don't learn.

On top of that, there's a lot of ignorance of laws. A good example is left-lane laws, and there are people out there who think it's perfectly fine for them to camp in the left lane at 5 mph under the speed limit because "the limit is the law" and "it's a limit, not a requirement" and "the speed limit is the same for both lanes" (never mind that not camping in the left lane and/or being required to move right to allow faster traffic to pass regardless of how fast you're going is also the law in at least 35 states), and they'll rage about left lane laws existing to "reward speeders" and such.

Then there's also people trying to "be nice" instead of taking their right-of-way like they should and letting someone else go, but all that's doing is adding to congestion, and all those small "acts of kindness" add up. Sure, you might be being nice to that one guy at the 4-way stop, but you're holding up 3-4 other people to do it. You're also creating and reinforcing unpredictability and inconsistency. It's one thing to slow down a bit or move over a lane to let someone merge in more easily when there's nobody around you, but it's a whole other thing in other areas.
 

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It's called "situational awareness" and you are developing it. This is a good thing, it will keep you alive.
 

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"Ain't quite right"™
2008 VRSCDX 2019 FXDR
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I've never had anyone purposely try to hit/wreck me or anything. Usually they just don't see, and I think more often it doesn't matter that its a bike, I see them have accidents and near-accidents with other cars all the time, even big, brightly colored ones. Granted we do get seen a lot less than cars.

But I think the problem is multifaceted.

It first begins with just basic negligence. Nobody drives it into people's heads that they're piloting a 1 ton hunk of metal and plastic around at 30-80 mph, and they don't really get the reality of that. If you had a person out in public, around other people, swinging around a 16 lb steel ball on a 4' piece of steel wire (Olympic sport of hammer throw), people would view that as dangerous even if it were a professional athlete experienced in it that was doing it. Meanwhile, they logically know cars and driving can be way more dangerous and deadly, yet don't have nearly the same level of fear and respect for them. They know it, but they don't feel it. And it's not so much that they should fear driving or cars, just that they should show it the same level of "respect" or and caution that they should, the way they would watching a professional hammer throw being executed right in front of them.

Another problem is negligence and carelessness. The more someone does something, the more confident they become in their ability to do it, and this often leads to them being more careless because "they know what they're doing". Kind of like when you go to McDonald's... if your Big Mac looks like it does in the picture and takes an extra minute to get to you, you know that's a guy that's only been at it for a week, hasn't gotten lazy and haphazard yet. And the more that nothing bad happens to them while driving, the better they think they are at it. This is also part of what leads to other careless behaviors like: texting and driving, not turning your head and looking before lane-changes (just a quick glance in a mirror), etc.

Even then, not many, at least in America, were really taught how to drive and handle a car properly. They're taught gas is go, brake is stop, keep it between the lines and other basics. But things that are taught but don't get used (like emergency avoidance) get forgotten and rusty. People aren't generally taught situational awareness, and are often completely clueless as to what's going on around them and further up the road other than what's immediately in front of them or where they're immediately trying to go. I see lots of dash cam vids where people change lanes into a passing car because they didn't look to see if anyone was coming, they only looked to see if it was clear right next to them where they wanted to go, for example. And when things happen, they're almost always caught off-guard. And even then, it's rare that they take full responsibility, there's always some excuse, or some other reason why it's not entirely their own fault. Even then, a lot of outsiders make excuses for bad driving, like "we're only human, we make mistakes", never mind that such an excuse wouldn't be acceptable if they hit a kid, or if a pilot committed an error that caused a plane crash even if everyone came out unharmed, or a surgeon made a mistake even if nobody died.

Furthermore, if there's a close call but nothing happened and you confront them, it often does no good because they don't know they did something wrong, or don't think they did, or think it's no big deal, and they don't learn.

On top of that, there's a lot of ignorance of laws. A good example is left-lane laws, and there are people out there who think it's perfectly fine for them to camp in the left lane at 5 mph under the speed limit because "the limit is the law" and "it's a limit, not a requirement" and "the speed limit is the same for both lanes" (never mind that not camping in the left lane and/or being required to move right to allow faster traffic to pass regardless of how fast you're going is also the law in at least 35 states), and they'll rage about left lane laws existing to "reward speeders" and such.

Then there's also people trying to "be nice" instead of taking their right-of-way like they should and letting someone else go, but all that's doing is adding to congestion, and all those small "acts of kindness" add up. Sure, you might be being nice to that one guy at the 4-way stop, but you're holding up 3-4 other people to do it. You're also creating and reinforcing unpredictability and inconsistency. It's one thing to slow down a bit or move over a lane to let someone merge in more easily when there's nobody around you, but it's a whole other thing in other areas.


Would you mind elaborating?
 

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"Ain't quite right"™
2008 VRSCDX 2019 FXDR
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I believe that most people just don't care. They feel they own the road and you should not be there. Definitely have to be ready for anything.

^^ This, people think they're the center of the universe, usually it's not personal, they're just oblivious and entitled...
Say what you will about loud pipes, but I know people on phones don't like being around me on the bike, I'm good with that.

The ones that burn my ass, are the ones that DO notice me and try to govern my speed...
 

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There was a study done, maybe 40+ years ago looking into motorcycle accidents and the causes. Seems the sight of a motorcycle is somewhat foreign to roadways for a lot of people, the highways being for cars and trucks. Large vehicles. Their eyes see a motorcycle but their brains tell them something more in line with bicycle and therefor not on the roadway. Got to remember our eyes are just sensors, the processor takes the sensor data and interprets it. Like a computer, if it has bad or limited programming it will increase the chance of misinterpretation of the data. So frequently when you get what we see as the lamest of excuses 'I didn't see you', often they really didn't. The data was incorrectly interpreted as something other than a motorcycle with 1 or 2 souls on board. So the advice to always think that they don't see you is a life saver.

Then there are the a$$holes. The ones that think you have no right to be on the road, they hate that you are exercising a freedom that they don't have the balls to, they lost a girlfriend to a biker, or they are just sociopaths. Riding for a large part of my time in So. California I have run into more than my fair share of those. They look you square in the eye and run you out of your lane crap. Being alert to that sh1t and always having an exit strategy is your best defense. I will admit to, after the fact, reacting badly to those situations but like to think I have mellowed some with age. Something a lot of people without those survival skills and instincts will not get the opportunity to develop.
 

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"Ain't quite right"™
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I've actually been cut-off by a co-worker, who happened to be a new rider. When I got to work he said "I owe you a beer, and I forgot how quickly bikes can close a gap".

Either way, I never let "right of way" outweigh "laws of physics" there's nothing goin on in traffic I feel I need to become a martyr for the sake of "right of way"

I can easily make up any ground I lose to letting someone go in front of me, because they're not in front of me for very long....
 

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You never know what real defensive driving is until you spend one day on a motorcycle. We always assume that the other person does not see us, because usually they don't. They either have their head up their ass texting or just not even paying attention in general.
In fact just yesterday, we were on a short ride, cruising down the road. We see the car at a side road creeping, we slow down. He hasn't pulled out so we think okay we're safe ... rev a little for HEY DO YOU HEAR ME SINCE YOU PROBABLY DONT SEE ME (even though the guy was looking right at us)....soon as we get right up next to him he pulled out and nearly hits us.
 

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Had a jackass in a pickup pull out in front of me coming off of a highway exit ramp onto one of the main streets (3 lanes each way) here in town. Good thing the new bike has good brakes.

I was in the right most lane, and he pulled off the exit ramp (which has a stoplight) into the right most lane as well... Which was weird, cause most dumbasses around here make a right turn into the center or left most lane.

I gave him an angry digital display mode change instead of honking my anemic horn at him.
 

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The problem is....wait for it....people do not pay attention and do not take their driving seriously. And....just why is that? ANSWER: Distracted drivers are not punished severely enough. Often they aren't punished at all. So, enough about more texting laws. Kinda like gun laws--still having a problem? Enact more laws.

The cause for a driver to be distracted could be a cell phone, or a cup of coffee, or kids fighting in the back seat, or eating a sandwich, or putting on makeup, so forth and so on. And my way of thinking about it is if you let anything distract you from safely piloting your steel, glass and plastic vehicle and you injure or kill someone, or cause serious property damage you need to pay up in a manner that will dissuade you from ever again driving distracted. SERIOUS monetary penalties, loss of driving rights for maybe a long time, insurance rates through the roof, maybe some hard time behind bars, maybe all of the above.

If distracted driving penalties are harsh, people will learn. And if they learn then your family as well as mine are safer.
 
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