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Shovelhead
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Discussion Starter #1
I'm have installed the Rinehart slip on muffler on my 09 FLHX vs the Scream'n Eagle. Now I'm thinking of installing the HD heavy breather air cleaner. It's not worth a $150 one time remap when I plan on more performance up grades in the future. Next upgrade will be the Stage III after the factory warranty.So I'm thinking of going with the Super Tuner or Power Commander? Your thoughts please. I'm new to the computer era on bikes so I need some ideas.
 

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I would reccommend The Thundermax ECM with auto tune, it converts your bike to a closed loop system where the ECM adjusts automatically to any changes you make. No need for a Dyno tune, and its not a "piggy back" module like the PCIII. I went through this same thing and juggled a few products back and forth such as the PCIII and Fuelpak from V&H. Ive been very happy with my choice in the THundermax. Its more expensive than the PCIII, but youll end up paying about the same anyway when you add on the cost of Dyno time.
 

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Shovelhead
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Discussion Starter #3
Northstar where can I research this? Thanks
 

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I was reading in some rag that the stock HD ECM maybe able to remap to your changes without an upgrade. Damned if I can remember the magazine though... May want to check it out before spending the money on something you don't really need.
 

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Shovelhead
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Discussion Starter #6
That's just it, they can be remapped at $150 a pop. When I asked the dealer about the air cleaner upgrade along with the mufflers that I already have they said that it would cost $150 to remap the computer. That means that everytime I perform an upgrade I have to put out another $150 for a remap. With the HD Super Tuner you avoid this cost? That's what the dealer is telling me? I'll get a clear understanding of the remap today since I have to drop by the dealer anyway. I understand the old saying "If you want to play you have to pay".
Thanks for your input.
 

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Ya misunderstood... Since you got an '09, your stock ECM may be able to remap itself (in 15 minutes they say) to your new pipes and air cleaner. No need for a new ECM or having somebody remap anything. The stock ECM has a lot of play area for changes without having to be upgraded. I believe I read this in American Iron.
Personal experience? Nope... I got a carb. But I'd try out leaving the stock ECM in and riding it for a while to see what happens. Maybe do a plug chop to see if you're on the lean or rich side.
 

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Shovelhead
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391 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Rockslide ,that's exactly what the tech said at the dealer. However, he did recommend the remap. So I'm installing the air cleaner this morning and I'll ride it and see if it makes a diffference. The dino charts that that I've seen for this upgrade shows a increase of 10 ft.lbs. of torque and hp. I should feel something! Thanks
 

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Shovelhead
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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks Nathang. I missed that discussion. That's what I needed.
 

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You guys might not have seen an earlier discussion on this general topic, and IMHO our member rjrivero might be the local subject matter expert. Check this thread

http://www.harley-davidsonforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3135&highlight=tuner
Disclaimer:

I'm NO expert. I had to learn this stuff because of my addiction to my VRSC. If you want to increase your bore and stroke, you have to learn this stuff, or be a millionare. Since I'm not winning any lotterys, I had to learn it.

What I do know about the closed loop ECM's is that they CAN adjust to a degree. Maybe 20%. If your fuel demands are beyond 20% from the baseline, your ECM will revert back to it's stored map, and throw you a code.

For some pipes, the ECM may be able to compensate. The only way to know is to try it. Which pipes will work and which won't? I don't know.
 

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Shovelhead
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Discussion Starter #12
rj, all I did was install Rinehart mufflers and a heavy breather aircleaner. I've been out of town since I installed the ac but, will be riding it this weekend although it will be a bit chilly in sw pa. Do you think the stock ecm will remap for such a little up grade? Dealer is telling me to remap or go with the install the HD SEPRT because of my future stage III upgrade after factory warranty is up.
 

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It's hard to say. You can try it, and see if it works out okay. The only way we are going to know is if you try it.

There are two ways to look at it: Get the SEPST or TTS's Master Tuner, and you will be all set for that stage III when the time comes, and you can be covered now. If you run into problems with it now, with the Rineharts and the Heavy Breather, is it covered under warranty?

Just food for thought.
 

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Shovelhead
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391 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Well from what I've seen on other forums is that the Thunder max and PC for the 09 is not do out until Dec./Jan. but the SERPT is available for the 09 models.
As for the warranty the dealer said that they will back the SERPT but once the stage III is done it will be their call if to warranty anything. Thanks
 

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Super Tuner vs. Power Commander

I have an 09 V-ROD Muscle and would like to know what your opinion is on the Super Tuner vs. Power Commander is. Also, what pipes would you recommend. I dont like it too loud but would like a little more than the factor baffels allow.
 

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A little Advice

Here's the real deal with the power commander vs supertuner debate. Harley-Davidsons are set up lean from the factory. H-D does this to comply with EPA standards. Adding a high flow air cleaner and a high flow exhaust without some sort of fuel management will lean out your bike even more. This will cause your bike to run hotter and your engines life span to shorten as well. You probably won't notice any issues without fuel management. But, it will be better for your bike in the long run to have the correct air/fuel ratio for your bike's set up.

That being said. The Harley-Davidson Super Tuner is the only fuel management system that I have never seen fail. It plugs into your bike. Remaps the stock ECM. Then gets unplugged and allows the ECM to work the way it is supposed to. Gather data from your sensors and deciding how much fuel to give your bike.

All others (PCIII, V&H Fuel Pack, etc.) get installed on to the bike. Making them susceptible to corrosion from moisture, and engine vibration. On top of that, these work by taking data from the sensors and just lying to the ECM to get what they want. For the minimal amount of money saved, I don't believe these are worth giving a shot.

For the Thundermax. I've seen both good and bad. I've had customers extremely happy with them. With others dreading the day they ever decided to install it. In theory it's a great concept. Who wouldn't love a product that automatically tunes a motorcycle. But, with the hefty price tag and the chance of failure, I wouldn't install one on my bike.

So, again. For the cost, and the reliability. The best product for H-D fuel management is the H-D Super Tuner. By and use it for your stage 1 ac and exhaust. Then save for the next time you upgrade your ride and use it again.
 

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I run a PCIII on my '03 Ultra and have had a few different exhausts on it.

I have always been able to dial it in each time with not any problems.

:cool:
 

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terd # 27
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I run a PCIII on my '03 Ultra and have had a few different exhausts on it.

I have always been able to dial it in each time with not any problems.

:cool:
Johnny Ray are you the same Johnny that has a falcon and was at the woodward cruise in 2005?
 

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I am running the V&H Big Radius with the heavy breather. I got a fuel pak to straighten everything out and I have no complaints as of yet.
 
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