Help with Harley transaction

2697 Views 29 Replies 21 Participants Last post by HDGLIDE2014, Aug 2, 2014

hoopster3

Discussion Starter · Jul 30, 2014

I have a situation with my brother-in-law and Harley Davidson. About a month ago he traded in a 2011 F-150 that had about 8 months left on a lease. His payoff on the truck was around $29k and the trade in he got was $31k. Yes, it was a lease but you can still purchase the vehicle at anytime. So he ended up with $2k to play with when looking at a new bike. He ended up picking up a 2014 Softail Slim and has been loving life until.....

He received a call from Harley today and they said he owes an additional $2400. They said he owes $1600 in taxes that weren't accounted for and an $800 administrative fee to reverse and refund his loan in order to get a new loan that includes the extra $2400. When going through the process he provided them with a payoff sheet from the loan holder that stated it could be purchased for $29k. This particular dealer is saying that they had never done a lease payoff before and that is why there are these extra fees that need to be paid.

I told him I would tell them that I felt misled and would like to cancel the entire transaction and get the truck back just to see if they're willing to continue on with the deal as it was. I feel like they misled him and did something wrong on their end and are trying to get my brother-in-law to pay for their mistake.

Can anyone shed some light on this??? Any help would be appreciated.

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big [email protected]

· #2 · Jul 30, 2014

Contact a lawyer in your Area for 100 bucks or so for a consultation . To see what they say for the shizt there coming up with a hundred bucks or so is the thing to do . Then you or him have a legal answer not someone's opinion .

Sounds like BULL sh--to me JMOP

HDGLIDE2014

· #3 · Jul 30, 2014

If he signed paperwork and has the title it's his. I'd tell them it's not my fault you can't get your shit together. If they sue him they would have to fraudulently claim they told him otherwise which he could easily prove with the signed paperwork.

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hoopster3

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 30, 2014

HDGLIDE2014 said:
If he signed paperwork and has the title it's his. I'd tell them it's not my fault you can't get your shit together. If they sue him they would have to fraudulently claim they told him otherwise which he could easily prove with the signed paperwork.

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He won't have the title as it's a loan. He would have the paperwork that shows the price of the transaction though.

HDGLIDE2014

· #5 · Jul 30, 2014

they should be listed as a lein holder I believe. He still should receive the title. I've never heard of a dealership keeping the title.

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hoopster3

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 30, 2014

In Iowa the bank that has the loan keeps the title until the loan is paid off. After the loan is paid in full the bank sends the title to the owner. This is done for all vehicle loans in Iowa.

If it was a personal loan and the bank didn't know what the money was for he would have received the title.

Yon Yonson

· #7 · Jul 30, 2014

I think Wisconsin is going this route also. No longer gonna issue a title. I believe the bank get it and when the loan is satisfied you may then request one.

RideADyna

· #8 · Jul 30, 2014

hoopster3 said:
In Iowa the bank that has the loan keeps the title until the loan is paid off. After the loan is paid in full the bank sends the title to the owner. This is done for all vehicle loans in Iowa.

If it was a personal loan and the bank didn't know what the money was for he would have received the title.

Same here in Texas and also Washington State. Bank or Loan office keeps title until paid off. Original Registration may look similar to a title but it won't say "Certificate of Title"

mcaccamise

· #9 · Jul 30, 2014

Same here in FLA Bank holds the Title until loan is satisfied sounds like a done deal to bad for the store that sold him the bike he holds the upper hand on this one.

kcdcltd

· #10 · Jul 30, 2014

I believe part of the problem is that is was a leased vehicle therefore he never had any ownership. Typically you pay sales tax on the trade difference and as he did not "own" the truck, he may not been entitled to the sales tax savings. The other fees I would want more info on....

HoustonRonnie

· #11 · Jul 30, 2014

In Texas, the live title is sent to you if you paid cash and to the lienholder if you have a loan with a copy of the title to you. Plates are a different story. The plates always go to the stealership.

JTJ

· #12 · Jul 30, 2014 (Edited)

Most lenders have a clause in their contracts that they make you sign, that basically says "You agree to fix any and all paperwork mistakes, etc..."
If they (HD Eaagle bank) are holding the title on the bike, they may not release it until they get what they feel they have coming.
It is not right, but it may cost him the 2500 to sort it out...

redman24

· #13 · Jul 30, 2014

jtj.wilbur said:
Most lenders have a clause in their contracts that they make you sign, that basically says "You agree to fix any and all paperwork mistakes, etc..."
If they (HD Eaagle bank) are holding the title, they may not release it until they get what they feel they have coming.
It is not right, but it may cost him the 2500 to sort it out...

I would get the dealership to point out the clause which is probably there. Once funding is completely finished then it becomes a different story. If there is a 3rd party bank or two involved then he needs to call them to get the facts straight. I can see the complexity of this type of payoff. The Payoff should have taken all taxes into account, but I am not looking at the paperwork. They should be well versed in all sorts of payoffs and vehicle purchases. It is one of their profit centers. No extra charge for this should ever be paid. In my humble opinion, totally the dealership's fault.

Wyecoyote

· #14 · Jul 30, 2014

Like big john said pay a 100 to a lawyer for a consultation. State laws differ. Could even be a simple mistake and covered where he owes. Could be the dealership isn't paperwork signed and they are trying to get money but not legal. Talk to a lawyer.

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Pred8er

· #15 · Jul 30, 2014

I would go the lawyer route first, but would seriously be considering just telling them to suck it up buttercup, not going to pay for their eff up......and if the lawyer tells me I am wrong, cancel the deal.....especially if they sold his truck already....that would make their sphincter pucker.

dub

· #16 · Jul 30, 2014

Unfortunately personal property taxes on lease vehicles can show up and are due and payable. The lease company pays them and then bills the customer. This would not show in a payoff quote if the timing is just right. I suspect this is the main issue. The 800.00 charge makes no sense.

hoopster3

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jul 30, 2014

dmwphoto said:
Unfortunately personal property taxes on lease vehicles can show up and are due and payable. The lease company pays them and then bills the customer. This would not show in a payoff quote if the timing is just right. I suspect this is the main issue. The 800.00 charge makes no sense.

Wouldn't you think the dealership would know that when completing the paperwork? Seems a little shady to me that they would try to collect this money a month after the transaction has been completed.

02sportytex

· #18 · Jul 30, 2014

As far as the title goes, that is different with every state as far as who gets the title; but regardless there will be a lien on the bike itself. So many variables in this ordeal, did he finance through HD (will say Eaglemark Savings Bank on paperwork) or did they go with a 3rd party. The dealership is typically responsible to cover the payoff so I would be talking with the GM or the owner on this. I can understand the taxes issue, but the admin fee is wrong because it was the employee's mistake. I would make sure to keep all paperwork he was given and use it as proof. This is a mistake by the dealership and the dealership should cover the admin fee; like I said I can understand the taxes but not the admin fee. Cover your bases, even call about the loan itself and get some ideas.

dub

· #19 · Jul 30, 2014

hoopster3 said:
Wouldn't you think the dealership would know that when completing the paperwork? Seems a little shady to me that they would try to collect this money a month after the transaction has been completed.

Actually you are right. The leasing agency would collect from your brother direct. They had the agreement with him. It is sounding more like a scam

Dave63

· #20 · Jul 30, 2014

hoopster3 said:
Wouldn't you think the dealership would know that when completing the paperwork? Seems a little shady to me that they would try to collect this money a month after the transaction has been completed.

There is no title issue. Its a lease vehicle owned by the bank.

As for the "extra" fees: Its the dealer's responsibility to add all those together at transaction time.

However.....if they fail to, forget or simply f-up, the fee responsibility is still the responsibility of the vehicle owner.

You can fight it or have an attorney review it, but the reality is, those are fees that have to be paid.

The legitimacy of having to pay them now, 30 days later, is because most banks and businesses work in 30-60 billing cycles.

If he owes it, he owes it.

I'd still talk to someone, but I don't see it bring ruled in his favor. Perhaps the dealer is trying to pull some shady crap.......which is why I'd get a second opinion.

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