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I ride a Harley as most people do it seems, but while talking with long time Harley owner/riders the topic of horsepower from stock Harley bikes came up and most of the group can't understand why the power is kept at a low number compared to other brands on the market these days. As some pointed out, other brands have 100hp in stock bikes without modifications/rebuilds. Some felt the only way Harley could do this is to go with the V Rod water cooled engine which may be the case and some felt that Harley would be offering other models with the V Rod engine. With that suggestion several said that they would not buy one for it would not be a Harley and others said that if Harley did they would definitely buy one for the added performance. Last time I checked market share on bikes, HD garners some 50% of the U.S. market and 33% of world market so like the old saying goes "if it's not broke don't fix it..." Would be interesting to see a Road Glide with the V Rod engine???
 

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On Probation
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There is way more to HD than HP.
If I just wanted HP I would buy a Ducati or Busa or the like.
No other bike looks, sounds or makes me feel like my HD does.
They have heart and soul of the American spirit built into everyone of them. :biker:
 

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Harley measures HP where it counts, on the rear wheel. Not on the end of the crank shaft. My 103 gets 76.5 hp on the ground as measured on the dyno at the HDshop. Mark that up 20% roughly 100 on the crank. Have a gud day
 

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There is way more to HD than HP.
If I just wanted HP I would buy a Ducati or Busa or the like.
No other bike looks, sounds or makes me feel like my HD does.
They have heart and soul of the American spirit built into everyone of them. :biker:
Exactly this. I've ridden. Everything this side of the sun. And NOTHING companies to a Harley.
And you can not explain this concept. You have to own and ride one to understand.


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Maddog
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yeah. And 76HP is still enough to get you killed.

All the jap bike wannabe's, ain't $hit! Thay ALL
want to imitate HD and badmouth them at the
same time. F--K em!
 

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Acta Non Verba
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Harley could design an engine based off the 45° v-twin that would produce more hp but, the look would probably change and as we all know that's a sin.

They probably have test models already up and running but the TC will have to run it's course first. Eventually the CARB & EPA standards will catch up & force the change.

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Fat Guy on the Ultra
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Most bikes that produce 100+ HP it's
1. Different angle of a v-twin,
2. Not a single pin crank,
3. Crank HP vs rear wheel HP.
4. Not a twin at all, rather a v-4 such as the Star bagger.
5. Water cooled so it can pass epa standards and run at optimum afr.

But like others have said. I Love my Harley because it is an icon, not just a bike. It's the little differences that make it what it is. The detail of the paint, no crimp strip around the tank, hidden wires and the classic american motorcycle style and sound. Changing any part of this, wouldn't make it a Harley anymore

Thats why a Honda sounds like a Honda and not a Harley........
 

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Why don't those other bikes want to compare torque with HD?


Cause they don't have as much torque as a HD!


When you only look at HP numbers, you are only looking at half the picture!



All HP is, is Torque x RPM / 5252. So to make a high HP motor, you need to make your torque at a high as possible RPM.


How to do that? Short stroke, big bore motor combined with the right cam to take advantage of that.
 

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2008 Star Raider First Ride - Motorcycle USA

now this is out of YAMAHA'S version of a harley style bike...really its right inline with harley performance if you concider the fact it has a 113ci motor, low compression, twin cylinder, and hits torque low in the rpm

harley has never produced a 113 for the showroom models but if it did im sure power would look close

if you want it to be good round town ridable power then you go for low end tq, and like stated, you cant have high low end tq and high rpm hp...just doesnt work like that unless you go with a huge motor to get both numbers higher

too many people get stuck on HP numbers, they may buy a kawasaki cuz it says 130hp or whatever but when its all said and done....look whos winning NHRA drags....HARLEY...so i dont care what any bike comes with outta the box...the potential is in cubic inches and the guy building the motor...and most harley riders buy harley to own an iconic motorcycle...not because its stamped with a high hp number if it wasnt for higher hp numbers these other companies would be outta the motorcycle business

also harley owners love there cams and pipes...if you produced a built bike outta the box this leaves little room for the owner to make mods...
 

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Power wise I don't see the argument people have really. The 103 is only a little less power then its comparable water cooled variants of other manufacturers. The other thing is that stage one on a restricted air cooled Harley does a lot of good for the engine compared to say doing a stage one on the victory 106. Because of the epa the Harley engine has to leave some power on the table whereas the victory engine leaves almost nothing on the table. Put them on equal playing fields....and the numbers get pretty close.

Regardless I personally couldn't care less. I'll take my 1200cc road monster any day. When is the last time a Honda shadow 1100 (water cooled) beat a 1200 both stock?

That bike is slow, surprisingly slow for the cc size.

The modern era of Harley (96ci and on) has brought their actual on road performance to very similar standards as other companies. Plus you get all of the aforementioned awesomeness. Seems like a no brainier to me. Harley, Harley, Harley!!!
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Fat Guy on the Ultra
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When is the last time a Honda shadow 1100 (water cooled) beat a 1200 both stock?

That bike is slow, surprisingly slow for the cc size.

I have to disagree. In my honda days, 6 yrs ago, i had a 2000 sabre 1100 with cobra pipes and my buddy had a new nighster 1200 supposedly with the 1340 kit, and pipes. Im well over 400 and he was 5"2' at 185 soaking wet. Everytime we pulled out, he was beside me til 85. We never got over 2 bikes apart. Either he didnt know how to pull out hard, or the bike just didnt have more power? I sold the honda to another friend and with my new 2013 ultra with 103 and stage 1 upgrades. Its the same deal. We stay neck and neck. So i have to give the honda credit, it has some power.

Not to talk bad about HD but they do leave alot of power on the table due to design traits and epa regs. I would venture to say its also a business decision, they know the hd croud is loyal to the brans more then any other croud, so they know we will sink the money to make it what we want. And after market support is there. The only thing the others have going for them is the idea that they make a stronger bike from the factory........ who cares, i love my hd for the reasons i stated in another post. I can make my bike anything i want it to be. What other brand has so much acc and after market support???? None. Ive looked. Other then a goldwing, you cant find a third of the crap you cam for a Harley.
 

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nitro freak
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for one thing,the "harleys winning NHRA" aint harleys,but one off completly purpose built motors.the reason there so low HP stock is EPA regulations,
 

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for one thing,the "harleys winning NHRA" aint harleys,but one off completly purpose built motors.the reason there so low HP stock is EPA regulations,
they may be purpose built but are still based off harley though right? pushrod v-twin

everyone else are trying to run the high winding 4 cylinders
 

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2008 Star Raider First Ride - Motorcycle USA

now this is out of YAMAHA'S version of a harley style bike...really its right inline with harley performance if you concider the fact it has a 113ci motor, low compression, twin cylinder, and hits torque low in the rpm

harley has never produced a 113 for the showroom models but if it did im sure power would look close

if you want it to be good round town ridable power then you go for low end tq, and like stated, you cant have high low end tq and high rpm hp...just doesnt work like that unless you go with a huge motor to get both numbers higher

too many people get stuck on HP numbers, they may buy a kawasaki cuz it says 130hp or whatever but when its all said and done....look whos winning NHRA drags....HARLEY...so i dont care what any bike comes with outta the box...the potential is in cubic inches and the guy building the motor...and most harley riders buy harley to own an iconic motorcycle...not because its stamped with a high hp number if it wasnt for higher hp numbers these other companies would be outta the motorcycle business

also harley owners love there cams and pipes...if you produced a built bike outta the box this leaves little room for the owner to make mods...
But, that 130 HP is being produced factory stock by 38.8 cubic inches of displacement...

A little less than 88 cubic inches is putting out almost 200 HP at the rear wheel and about 120 ft pounds torque...
 

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But, that 130 HP is being produced factory stock by 38.8 cubic inches of displacement...

A little less than 88 cubic inches is putting out almost 200 HP at the rear wheel and about 120 ft pounds torque...
But you are talking about water cooled inline 4 cylinder motors built with what can be considered racing components....


And it is NOT at the rear wheel, those numbers you quoted are at the crank.


 

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