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Discussion Starter #1
I'd like to research Direct Tune & Master Tune. can someone give me info on these products. I'd like to compare them with PCIII. can a dyno be used to set them up? I don't plan on doing any more mods w/ my bagger. I've gotten some good feedback on my last post about the 05 FLHTCI. now I'd like to narrow down which tunning system to use & get the best bang for the buck.
 

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I have the SERT on my Ultra and can't do a thing with it, I don't have the CD for it and I'm not sure that would help if I did have it. I had a PCIII on my previous bike and could do just about anything I wanted to with the fuel system and my laptop PC. You can adjust the fuel to each cylinder individually or as a whole.
 

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These are MY personal Biases. So take it with a grain of salt.

The Electronic Control Module or ECM takes information from the Sensors, and based on this information will supply fuel and spark at the right time in the right amounts in the combustion cycle. The ECM uses a set of TABLES that are programmed into the module as a refrence for how much fuel and the proper timing of the spark for the motor.

When you change the air cleaner, or pipes, or intake, or cams, or displacement, you change the characteristics of the motor. You need to change these refrence tables to tell the ECM how much fuel you need, or spark advance you need to compensate for the chages in the motor. This is where the fun starts:

There are many ways to skin the cat.

There are Piggy Back Devices, like the PCIII that goes between the ECM and the Wiring harness. It can intercept the outputs to the injectors and coils and modify them to deliver more or less fuel, or more or less spark advance. The advantages are that the user can tweak the map on a dyno for a custom tune, or you can do "region" changes using the buttons on the PCIII for "seat of the pants" changes. There are lots of maps available from Dynjet as well as on forums such as this one. The disadvantages are that it's a piggy back device. It does it's job quickly, but there is still a slight delay from the time the ECM outputs get intecepted, modified and passed along the line. Not a big deal, or is it? When I used the PCIII, and tuned my V-Rod to the jagged Edge, it started to knock. The ion knock sensor failed to pull out enough timing to prevent continuous knock under load. Water intrusion into the connectors has been a big issue for some bikes depending on where the connectors are located, and where the ECM is located. V-Rods and PCIII's in rain don't mix well. I know of 2 folks who got stranded because of this. They no longer run PCIII's either.

There are Pulse width modulators. These devices are like the HD Race Fueler, or techlusion/Dobek device. These devices work well to change the fuel delivery pulse width. They sit between the wiring harness and the fuel injectors. They take the fuel injector pulse from the ECM and change them before they pass to the Injector. Thereby making changes to the fuel delivery. They do not modify spark advance at all. They do not interfere with the ion knock sensor at all. The advantage is the simplicity. They are cheaper than other options, they are tuneable by seat of the pants. The drawback is the fact that under vibration, the little screw settings can rotate, changing the fuel delivery from the desired setting. You also don't have fine tune capability with these devices. They typically have 3 or 4 "Pots" similar to a carb. You just tweak the low, middle, and high RPM pots and ride it until you're content.

Then you can have it "all." The Screamin Eagle Race Tuner (SERT), Sreamin Eagle Pro Super Tuner (SEPST), and the Master Tuner. These devices RE-Program the ECM Refreence tables. You can use them only on your bike. It mates to the ECM and will only modify the tables in the ECM that it is first used on. These devices will allow you to change fuel, spark, Idle RPM, Redline RPM, Warmup Enrichment (Behaves like the Choke on carbed bikes) Decel Enleanment, AFR targets for the O2 Sensors, etc.

The SERT was made by The Turbo Shop (TTS) and sold by HD. When HD went to negotiate for the new contract, they went with Kent Moore Tools. Thus the new SEPST. TTS, who's been working with Dephi Fuel Injection Systems for a LONG time decided to incorporate some changes and upgrades into thier EFI tuning package and are now selling them under the new name, the Master Tuner. The Master Tuner has many more options available for the end user. The software updating setup is online, and from what I understand, pretty seamless. When I have enough $$, I'm ditching my SERT and going to a Master Tuner.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks alot. rj. that's a great explaination. very clear. I'm having a pcII installed today & dyno tuned. I feel like it's a crap shot, but I can't aford the cost of sert or Master tune & I need some immidiate releaf. I hope I'm not throwing & away for the quick fix.
 

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The SERT was made by The Turbo Shop (TTS) and sold by HD. When HD went to negotiate for the new contract, they went with Kent Moore Tools. Thus the new SEPST. TTS, who's been working with Dephi Fuel Injection Systems for a LONG time decided to incorporate some changes and upgrades into thier EFI tuning package and are now selling them under the new name, the Master Tuner. The Master Tuner has many more options available for the end user. The software updating setup is online, and from what I understand, pretty seamless. When I have enough $$, I'm ditching my SERT and going to a Master Tuner.
now that was poetry. if i understood this correctly, the SERT is incapable of tuning the same content and degree of tune as the "master tuner"?

if this is the case...where can i get one of these "master tuners?"
 

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excelent, thank you sir! one question though..and this has been a hang up of mine from day one with this bike, what does the TTS do about when and IF i decide to put head pipes on without 02 ports in them and i have to eliminate the 02 sensors altogether?

sorry, i hate to keep asking questions, but when your talking the kind of money im looking to be spending in the end...you want to be fully informed BEFORE you start writing checks lol.
 

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excelent, thank you sir! one question though..and this has been a hang up of mine from day one with this bike, what does the TTS do about when and IF i decide to put head pipes on without 02 ports in them and i have to eliminate the 02 sensors altogether?

sorry, i hate to keep asking questions, but when your talking the kind of money im looking to be spending in the end...you want to be fully informed BEFORE you start writing checks lol.
Ask them for sure, but I believe you can turn the closed loop function OFF and not have to "plug" anything into the wiring harness at all. Just cap them off.
 

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now that was poetry
Say amen and Hallelujah. Thank you rjr.

So here's what may sound to some like an odd question, and may be taking me in over my head,
but I NEED TO KNOW THIS STUFF even if it sounds like it's going to make my head hurt...

I'm interested and tempted to go the other way from the previous question,
and install O2 sensors on my 2006 bikes, which were not O2 sensor equipped
(how sweet it is that they offer the Master Tuner version that will lock to the ECM on both bikes in a 2 bike household like mine)

I guess I just realized this is a dumb question, since my 2006 ECMs
prolly don't have any provision for adding O2 sensor inputs. DOH!

With my riding habit I think I would spend a lot of time in closed loop mode, and while my 95" LowRider gets pretty impressive mileage, it doesn't get near what the newer bikes with the closed loop "cruise" mode get.

So I guess I'd like to know stuff like..
- Can my 2006 bikes become more efficient with O2 sensors?
- Can that include better performance?
- Does it make any sense to consider this, if I'm realistically not really very likely to do a whole boatload of mods, and especially not an endless string of mods that would make recalibration a never ending effort?

Ya'know, the unit that will adapt itself to two bikes suggests how a sharp feller like yourself can get use of one of these trick systems, as well known as you are on these two forums, and probably in your area, get somebody else with only one bike to buck up the $625 for the unit, on the provision that you'll provide the tuning expertise for both if one of the two bikes the unit get's wedded to is yours.
 

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Say amen and Hallelujah. Thank you rjr.

So here's what may sound to some like an odd question, and may be taking me in over my head,
but I NEED TO KNOW THIS STUFF even if it sounds like it's going to make my head hurt...

I'm interested and tempted to go the other way from the previous question,
and install O2 sensors on my 2006 bikes, which were not O2 sensor equipped
(how sweet it is that they offer the Master Tuner version that will lock to the ECM on both bikes in a 2 bike household like mine)

I guess I just realized this is a dumb question, since my 2006 ECMs
prolly don't have any provision for adding O2 sensor inputs. DOH!

With my riding habit I think I would spend a lot of time in closed loop mode, and while my 95" LowRider gets pretty impressive mileage, it doesn't get near what the newer bikes with the closed loop "cruise" mode get.

So I guess I'd like to know stuff like..
- Can my 2006 bikes become more efficient with O2 sensors?
- Can that include better performance?
- Does it make any sense to consider this, if I'm realistically not really very likely to do a whole boatload of mods, and especially not an endless string of mods that would make recalibration a never ending effort?

Ya'know, the unit that will adapt itself to two bikes suggests how a sharp feller like yourself can get use of one of these trick systems, as well known as you are on these two forums, and probably in your area, get somebody else with only one bike to buck up the $625 for the unit, on the provision that you'll provide the tuning expertise for both if one of the two bikes the unit get's wedded to is yours.
If you want to go to a o2 sensor unit on your 2006, I reccommend biting the bullet and getting a TunderMax or a TCID (from Daytona Twintec).

They use wideband o2 sensors, and the ecm replaces your current ECM. It's the best way to tune on the fly, and both of these systems are true closed loop self programming systems. The downfall of these systems is the lack of the ion knock sensing system. (Dealbreaker for me, since I put this V-rod on the track a few times a month.)

What I use right now is the old SERT and the Twinscan II plus from Daytona Twintec. I log the data, and tweak it myself. Then run in open loop fashion. With enough sampling and tweaking, I have a pretty good map and really good mileage for days where I'm just cruising around.
 

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Direct Link

I am planning on going with the Techno Research "Direct Link" for my 09 Xbones. Is it true that this company developed the super tuner for HD? Any thoughts otherwise?
Thanks:
 

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Rj, could you explain this to me in some detail? Maybe direct me to a thread that deals with it? I've just about sold myself on the ThunderMax for my 2010 RKC, which is due out in spring for the TBW bikes. But I haven't read one word about "ion knock". I'm trying my best to re-educate myself on this stuff.
The downfall of these systems is the lack of the ion knock sensing system. (Dealbreaker for me, since I put this V-rod on the track a few times a month.)
 

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Where are the fuel injectors located on softails?

Ask them for sure, but I believe you can turn the closed loop function OFF and not have to "plug" anything into the wiring harness at all. Just cap them off.
Where, specifically, are the fuel injectors located on softails? I'm trying to locate them under the gas tank - not sure where exactly to look?

Thanks
 
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