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Between Eternities
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some weeks ago I suffered a dead battery while on he road and had it replaced by a guy pushing a mop at a Harley dealership in NJ (I am not complaining - thanks to Barb's HD in Camden NJ for getting me back on the road at 4 PM on Saturday afternoon while still addressing regular customers waiting for their scoots!)

That is all detailed in this thread:

http://www.harley-davidsonforums.com/forums/electrical/236513-sloppy-battery-instal.html

I am still getting the same problem intermittently; while running, my battery light will go on showing a problem with the charging system, my volt meter will drop to 8 volts or so, and that means I have to stop the engine, get under the seat and mess around moving the harness to get the problem to go away and allow the charging system to work normally.

The bike threw these codes:

P0134 - Front O2 not responding
P0154 - Rear O2 not responding
P0562 - ECM voltage low
P1353 - Front cylinder no combustion
P1356 - Rear cylinder no combustion
P0031 - Heater open/low

Fortunately I bought an extended warranty with the bike so now the dealership gets to troubleshoot this on Harley's dime, but I am curious to see if anyone might have any ideas on where the short circuit might be based on these codes (really, since I am running true duals with no emissions feedback with my PCV, the only code that is probably meaningful I would suspect would be the ECM low voltage.)
 

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Some weeks ago I suffered a dead battery while on he road and had it replaced by a guy pushing a mop at a Harley dealership in NJ (I am not complaining - thanks to Barb's HD in Camden NJ for getting me back on the road at 4 PM on Saturday afternoon while still addressing regular customers waiting for their scoots!)

That is all detailed in this thread:

http://www.harley-davidsonforums.com/forums/electrical/236513-sloppy-battery-instal.html

I am still getting the same problem intermittently; while running, my battery light will go on showing a problem with the charging system, my volt meter will drop to 8 volts or so, and that means I have to stop the engine, get under the seat and mess around moving the harness to get the problem to go away and allow the charging system to work normally.

The bike threw these codes:

P0134 - Front O2 not responding
P0154 - Rear O2 not responding
P0562 - ECM voltage low
P1353 - Front cylinder no combustion
P1356 - Rear cylinder no combustion
P0031 - Heater open/low

Fortunately I bought an extended warranty with the bike so now the dealership gets to troubleshoot this on Harley's dime, but I am curious to see if anyone might have any ideas on where the short circuit might be based on these codes (really, since I am running true duals with no emissions feedback with my PCV, the only code that is probably meaningful I would suspect would be the ECM low voltage.)
From what is posted, you have an open circuit in the charging system . No "short circuit", as that would blow a fuse .
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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I concur with Web....something is going open, and when you move the wiring around and regain the continuity, things go back to normal for a while. Wire broken inside insulation comes to mind.
 

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I concur with Web....something is going open, and when you move the wiring around and regain the continuity, things go back to normal for a while. Wire broken inside insulation comes to mind.
Broken wire or loose pin/socket in connection plug . :think
 

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Between Eternities
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks fellas - appreciate the insight. I dropped the bike off to the dealer today for a 02 June appointment (I will be travelling for work in the interim) and I will revert back with the results of their efforts. Considering the lead that I will give them based on the information you gave me, they should be able to address this in short order.
 

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Thanks fellas - appreciate the insight. I dropped the bike off to the dealer today for a 02 June appointment (I will be travelling for work in the interim) and I will revert back with the results of their efforts. Considering the lead that I will give them based on the information you gave me, they should be able to address this in short order.
You still believe in Santa ....don't ya .. :)
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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When my voltage regulator was going bad it produced some interesting
effects similar to what you are describing.
Jim, I thought about that after I posted earlier on this thread. Could be the problem.
 

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Between Eternities
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Dealership initially found a problem with my PCV, which I paid to replace (apparently it "went bad" after three years of regular use), and after riding the bike home from the dealership it threw the same codes!!

Now they are telling me that the problem is the stator.

I was advised of this over the phone (please note this problem has been unresolved after well over a month) so I am going to the dealership to talk with them directly and find out what is going on.

If it is the stator, then that will be replaced under my extended warranty, so my question for the esteemed members of this forum is this: should I pay out of pocket to upgrade the stator, given that I already have a touring bike with heated grips and may someday upgrade the stereo with an amplifier?

Does the MoCo heavy duty stator (or whatever it's called, the one that comes on CVO touring models) make the grade, or should I seriously consider an aftermarket?

Many thanks to all who care to let me know their thoughts/experiences!
 

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Between Eternities
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The following was posted some years ago by a former mem ber who no longer appears to be active; just wanted to ask if this is all accurate so that I can go to the dealership and ask specific questions to ensure that hey have in fact narrowed the problem down to the stator correctly:

Step 1. First things first, load test the battery. Most places like Auto Zone will do it for free. Even if it measures over 12.5 vdc it can still be bad under a load. Battery is typically rated at 19 amp hours and 270 Cold Cranking Amps (CCA).

Start the engine and measure DC Volts across the battery terminals, the regulator should be putting out 14.3 - 14.7 vdc at 3600 rpm and 75 degrees F.


Step 2. To check the regulator unplug it from the stator. Take a test light and clip it to the negative terminal of the battery and then touch first one pin and then the other on the plug that goes to the regulator. If you get even the slightest amount of light from the test light the regulator is toast.

To do this with a meter which is more accurate: black lead to battery ground, red lead to each pin on the plug, start with the voltage scale higher than 12vdc and move voltage scale down in steps for each pin. Any voltage is a bad regulator.
You may get battery voltage on all three pins on the newer 3 phase regulators.
The no voltage is for older type regulators with diode indicating the diode is bad and the regulator needs replacing.


Step 3. On the other part of the disconnected regulator plug. Set the multimeter for Ohms x1 scale and measure for resistance across the pins of the stator. You should read something around 0.1 to 0.2 ohms for the TC88 32 amp system.


Step 4. Then check for continuity between each pin on the plug and frame/engine ground. The meter needle should not move (infinite resistance)(digitals will show infinite resistance) if the meter needle does move (indicating continuity)(digitals will show some resistance), recheck very carefully. If the meter still shows continuity to ground the stator is shorted (bad).


Step 5. Set the meter to read A/C volts higher than 30 volts (the scale setting for voltage should always be higher than the highest voltage you expect or you may fry the meter). Start the bike, and measure from one pin to the other on the plug (DO NOT cross the multimeter probes! - touch them to each other). You should read roughly 16-20 vac per 1,000 rpm.


Step 6. If the battery was good under load test, if the stator is NOT shorted to ground, and the stator is putting out A/C voltage, then the regulator is bad (most likely even if if passed step 2).


Generally the following is true:
Check your owners/service manual for the system amp output for your bike.
22 amp system produces about 19-26 vac per 1,000 rpm, stator resistance is about 0.2 to 0.4 ohms.
32 amp system produces about 16-20 vac per 1,000 rpm, stator resistance is about 0.1 to 0.2 ohms.
45 amp system produces about 19-26 vac per 1,000 rpm, stator resistance is about 0.1 to 0.2 ohms.

you may want to check the regulator plug on the stator. Sometimes the rubber has issues and it wont fit correctly.
 

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Are they saying,"it's the stator", or are they saying"we think it's the stator"? If the latter, I'd find another opinion. Testing of the stator is simple, and very straight forward.( You just listed it above)

If they say "it is the stator", then I'd let them replace it, it's under warranty, and make sure the bike is working properly for a good long time, before thinking about an upgraded stator and regulator.
 

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Dealership initially found a problem with my PCV, which I paid to replace (apparently it "went bad" after three years of regular use), and after riding the bike home from the dealership it threw the same codes!!

Now they are telling me that the problem is the stator.

I was advised of this over the phone (please note this problem has been unresolved after well over a month) so I am going to the dealership to talk with them directly and find out what is going on.

If it is the stator, then that will be replaced under my extended warranty, so my question for the esteemed members of this forum is this: should I pay out of pocket to upgrade the stator, given that I already have a touring bike with heated grips and may someday upgrade the stereo with an amplifier?

Does the MoCo heavy duty stator (or whatever it's called, the one that comes on CVO touring models) make the grade, or should I seriously consider an aftermarket?

Many thanks to all who care to let me know their thoughts/experiences!
45 amp-3 phase is the biggest one that I know of that the MoCo makes .

Also about the PC V , is it still "bad" ??? I would wonder about that . :dunno
 

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Between Eternities
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I went ahead an authorized a standard stator replacement from the dealer rather than upgrade the charging system, as per the recommendations provided. It seemed sensible since I have learned that incremental changes to Harley systems are the best way to make changes, and in this context it is better to ensure that a standard stator replacement fixes the problem first, before considering upgrading the charging system's capabilities with a heavy duty series of components right now.
Thanks for the feedback!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The old PCV housing was cracked, which is why the dealership recommended replacement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The fact that the PCV was cracked was likely my fault. I had numerous instances, as I was experiencing electrical problems, when I would have to take off the seat roadside and fiddle around with the wiring harness to get the charging system lights to go off on my gauge cluster. I likely did not replace the PCV correctly on top of that plastic tray that installs right above the battery, and when I put the seat back on, tightened it down and added my weight, it likely broke the PCV housing which I had neglected to replace properly during one of these many roadside fix-it jobs.
 

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Should be a recall on that regulator. they replaced my 2012 Road King's when I still had it.
 
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