Is my Dealer screwing me?

3069 Views 18 Replies 13 Participants Last post by Farmer, Jul 22, 2014

Farmer

Discussion Starter · Jul 21, 2014

Hello, so I am new to*Harley*and new to upgrading bikes. My 2014 Harley is my 4th bike. I want to know the opinion of more experienced Harley guys. So I bought a 14 sportster 48. I bought it off the show room floor with*vance*and Hines short shots and a screaming eagle intake. When I purchased it they told me it had a basic map tune and after 1k miles I had a free tune. After one day of riding I took the*bike*back and said it wasn't running right. Between 1000 and 2200 rpms the bike runs rough. It almost seems like it is breaking up. The service department told me they*rode*it. It rode fine to them but did lug under 1000 like all Harley's. They said maybe after my 1k tune I'd think it rode better. I was mad but I said okay let's do what they say. After the 500 mile break in once I got it over 3k rpm I noticed the bike runs great up there, but pops on decel. Anyway 19 mph 1st gear 2100rpms is bike runs bad, 25mph 1st gear, 3k rpms Bike runs like a champ. So after 1000 miles on the motor I take it in for first service and free tune. After three weeks of them telling me it was too hot to tune the bike they gave it back to me. They put 20 miles on the bike. The Dyne sheet shows they tuned it at 95 degrees with 22% humidity. 77hp. With 75ftlbs of torque at 5200 rpm. Air fuel reads a 15-1ish across the board. Like straight as a ruler. I ride the bike. Rides the same. Still seems to break up under 2k rpms. I payed a lot for this bike. With the intake exhaust black diamond series stuff the put on and the screaming eagle super pro tuner they gave me after they tuned it. I just want the bike to ride right. And to me this isn't right. I feel like I could probably get more power from the upgrades but that isn't what is most important to me. I just want a better drive ability. Are they wrong or am I? I am thinking about taking it to another dealer and paying for them to tune it to shove it in my dealers face. Any opinion is greatly appreciated. Thanks*

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1 - 19 of 19 Posts

chasarms

· #2 · Jul 21, 2014

A harley isn't going t pull worth a damn below about 1,800 rpm. It's going lug. They all do it.

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Brodie5775

· #3 · Jul 21, 2014

My 883 loves to be really revved it's okay under 2k and really smooth over 3k

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Brodie5775

· #4 · Jul 21, 2014

Wanted to add that before I added the xieds it ran really lugged under 2k rpm. I forgot they were on there. I have short shots and outlaw air filter. The xieds for me made it way more responsive at lower rpm and run cooler in general. Idk about your dealership but in az the dealers aren't able to add fuel wth maps so the map they would add would just be a change in rev limiter really. But idk if that's across the board or not

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Farmer

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jul 21, 2014 (Edited by Moderator)

Brodie5775 said:
Wanted to add that before I added the xieds it ran really lugged under 2k rpm. I forgot they were on there. I have short shots and outlaw air filter. The xieds for me made it way more responsive at lower rpm and run cooler in general. Idk about your dealership but in az the dealers aren't able to add fuel wth maps so the map they would add would just be a change in rev limiter really. But idk if that's across the board or not

Well they used the Screaming Eagle super pro tuner. From what I read that has the ability to adjust intake exhaust fuel timing and a bunch more

Miles Tequillya

· #6 · Jul 21, 2014

Keep the rpms up... You will be fine

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Enzoline

· #7 · Jul 21, 2014

I would try just going back to stock

Dave63

· #8 · Jul 21, 2014

The bike should be tuned properly. NOW.....not 1000 miles from now. Why even install a tuner, put a "basic" map in it and not tune it correctly NOW, and wait?

Oh....because your profit is higher, by not taking the time to run the bike on a dyno or have a tech mess with it.......

Dealer "promises" should be obtained in writing, on dealer "We Owe" slips, not by word of some salesman's mouth.

The likelihood is the bike is just running at 14.7:1 and barely tuned at all. Common for low end power/torque bikes to surge and break up at low rpms when a load is placed on them, especially if running at EPA lean tunes.

Tommy_Guns

· #9 · Jul 21, 2014

Dave63 said:
The bike should be tuned properly. NOW.....not 1000 miles from now. Why even install a tuner, put a "basic" map in it and not tune it correctly NOW, and wait?

Oh....because your profit is higher, by not taking the time to run the bike on a dyno or have a tech mess with it.......

Dealer "promises" should be obtained in writing, on dealer "We Owe" slips, not by word of some salesman's mouth.

The likelihood is the bike is just running at 14.7:1 and barely tuned at all. Common for low end power/torque bikes to surge and break up at low rpms when a load is placed on them, especially if running at EPA lean tunes.

I'm also new to harley and well, riding in general. I bought a 48 as well and have been doing a LOT of research on customizing. Sounds like it is a poor tune. I had ONE guy tell me not to worry about buying something like a V&H Fuekpak and to just let the dealer tune my bike after installing performance mods. From EVERYONE else's opinion that I have read... this is BS and so are dealer tunes. I'd go with what these guys here say, they know their stuff. My 2 cents after reading MANY reviews is buy a "tuner". Not sure if that is the right nomenclature.. sorry about that. But it seems like a must! Enjoy the 48 man, I'm loving mine!

Dave63

· #10 · Jul 21, 2014

What you need to realize is a dealership is also under EPA guidelines as a new vehicle sales facility. In theory, a dealer is not allowed to tune a bike to run outside emissions guidelines or to alter emissions based equipment.

Some do it. Some do it better than others.

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Phdharley50

· #11 · Jul 21, 2014

Fuel Moto has a FP3 tuner for $350 (if your not going to do any more engine mods). A Thundermax tuner for $750 if you might do engine work. Both are autotuners. Read up on them.

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Bayonet

· #12 · Jul 21, 2014

A poor tune will make it run even worse but you cant expect face melting torque from just off idle.

2stangs8689

· #13 · Jul 21, 2014

Might be worth trying a different tuner altogether, or find someone else to dyno tune it with your current setup. As Dave stated, that dealership may not push the limits, and you will suffer.

2010hdultra

· #14 · Jul 21, 2014

Im with the others, if its running 15.7-15 to 1 afr, thats lean, good for passing epa but not for power, should be about 13.5-1 afr to get good power

bobf

· #15 · Jul 21, 2014

I'd start over. If the dealer's dyno sheet says 15.7 or some nonsense like that the bike not only won't run right
but being that lean, would not meet emission standards. I think he's BSing the hell out of you. If the bike were tuned to proper factory emission specs, it would run fine, not with the power you could get with a "good" tune, but it would run fine. Find another dyno, with an operator that knows how to tune.

Dave63

· #16 · Jul 21, 2014

15.7:1 is borderline dangerous to engine.

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02sportytex

· #17 · Jul 21, 2014

spend the money and buy your own tuner. They should have mapped it accordingly; considering all they do is select the bike and the add ons and the tuner does all the work. A properly tuned bike, won't pop on decel regularly; if it does it is minimal.

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Farmer

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 22, 2014

3

I don't want face melting torque, just smooth drive ability. I don't think The AFR is 15.7 to 1. It's hard to read. I can tell it is straight and doesn't cure. I know Optimal at idle is 14.7 to 1 and under full throttle should dip to 12 or 12.5-1. The camera on my phone is currently broken so I can't post a picture of the dyno sheet but here are pictures a few days after I bought the bike. Only things I've done since then is smoked turn signal lenses and a Derby cover. Everything else was on the bike when I purchased it.

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Farmer

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jul 22, 2014

Dave63 said:
Dealer "promises" should be obtained in writing, on dealer "We Owe" slips, not by word of some salesman's mouth.

The likelihood is the bike is just running at 14.7:1 and barely tuned at all. Common for low end power/torque bikes to surge and break up at low rpms when a load is placed on them, especially if running at EPA lean tunes.

I did get a "We Owe" from the dealership and they Honored it. I am a Service Advisor for a Ford Dealership. I know how poorly a service department and sales department can communicate. The bike may be tuned at 14.7 to 1 and I just can't tell because of the way it looks on the Dyno sheet it is hard to read. I think they might not have had an O2 sensor in when tuning.

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