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Discussion Starter #1
I've been pondering various options for my bike including the new 131 Softail kit. I think I'd end up at $6K all-in on that. Before I commit to that path, I decided to investigate a good Stage II setup to feel like I have enough info to decide between Stage II and Stage IV.

My bike is a 2018 Heritage 114 with K&H Sidedraft AC and I'm planning to add either D&D Fat Cat pipes or the Rinehart 2-1. My H-D factory warranty ends on Sept. 24 and a Discount ESP warranty begins then. The Discount ESP warranty is not voided if you use aftermarket parts or tuners, but it does not cover those parts.

My question is, has anybody used the H-D torque cam (PN 92500047) with good 2-1 pipes, a good AC, and EPA-free PowerVision tune, and if so, what kind of numbers are possible? Or, the H-D power cam, either one. I am comparing it with some pretty good numbers I have seen for an M8 114 with a Wood 22xe.

I would rather use the H-D part so my Discount ESP warranty would cover it, if performance is close. The torque chart I see on H-D's site is pretty modest compared with the 22xe I linked in the last paragraph, though that is also a 107 with slip-ons and Screaming Eagle tune.

Thanks!
 

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Look into Zippers Red shift cams. D&D is a good product and used by many. I wanted to retain my slipon so I went with a Jackpot stainless head pipe.


I run the Thundermax with auto tune, total replacement Ecu.

Fuelmoto has dyno and side by sides posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
If you poke around FuelMoto's dyno charts, there are several 114s with upgraded air cleaner, 2-1 exhaust head, Wood 22xe, and Power Vision tune that are over 120 FP and 110 HP. There are a couple over 130 FP and 120 HP. I am almost afraid to write that because if you look on the H-D site at the 131 Stage IV kit, the advertised numbers are very similar to the best Stage II numbers I am seeing on FM. In fairness, the H-D 131 Stage IV number is with a Screaming Eagle tune and maybe stock exhaust header pipes, they don't specify. I am sure you could get more out of the 131, I am just wondering if the bang for the buck is there for someone like me (average guy who rides with friends for fun).

I don't see any 114s with Red Shift on the FM dyno chart list, though I do notice there are 107s with it, and the improvement is similar to the 22xe improvement. I don't see why the Red Shift wouldn't also work well in the 114.

What I'd really like to find is if anybody has maxed out the H-D torque cam, or power cam, and what numbers they came up with, since a H-D part would be covered by my warranty and a Wood or Red Shift cam would not be.
 

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I've been pondering various options for my bike including the new 131 Softail kit. I think I'd end up at $6K all-in on that. Before I commit to that path, I decided to investigate a good Stage II setup to feel like I have enough info to decide between Stage II and Stage IV.

My bike is a 2018 Heritage 114 with K&H Sidedraft AC and I'm planning to add either D&D Fat Cat pipes or the Rinehart 2-1. My H-D factory warranty ends on Sept. 24 and a Discount ESP warranty begins then. The Discount ESP warranty is not voided if you use aftermarket parts or tuners, but it does not cover those parts.

My question is, has anybody used the H-D torque cam (PN 92500047) with good 2-1 pipes, a good AC, and EPA-free PowerVision tune, and if so, what kind of numbers are possible? Or, the H-D power cam, either one. I am comparing it with some pretty good numbers I have seen for an M8 114 with a Wood 22xe.

I would rather use the H-D part so my Discount ESP warranty would cover it, if performance is close. The torque chart I see on H-D's site is pretty modest compared with the 22xe I linked in the last paragraph, though that is also a 107 with slip-ons and Screaming Eagle tune.

Thanks!
Save your time and money. Run out your warranty and don’t waste money on screaming eagle. Go with a 128 kit and any of the 4 main companies. S&S, Zipper’s, Fueling or Fuel Moto. The stock cylinder tolerances, thin walls and 2mm oil control rings are junk on the M8. Great design but very poor manufacturing. Any of those 4 companies can provide very good HP and torque numbers through their respective research and dyno proven combinations. Longevity combined with serious streetable power is all they build.
My fuel Moto 124 kit puts out 122 Hp and 141 ft lbs of torque. All for 5k.
The stock 107 cylinders were done after 4K miles.
Do your research .
 

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Discussion Starter #6
After a lot of research, I have decided that the popular options are popular for a reason, and am planning to get a 128 kit. Right now thinking FM 128, S&S oil pump and cam plate, 64mm Screaming Eagle TB with Ward manifold, 6.3 injectors. Question before I start ordering parts. This is an 11.0:1 compression kit. Is it intended to run on normal premium gas, or would I need special fuel? Thanks.
 

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After a lot of research, I have decided that the popular options are popular for a reason, and am planning to get a 128 kit. Right now thinking FM 128, S&S oil pump and cam plate, 64mm Screaming Eagle TB with Ward manifold, 6.3 injectors. Question before I start ordering parts. This is an 11.0:1 compression kit. Is it intended to run on normal premium gas, or would I need special fuel? Thanks.
Premium unleaded is fine, definitely get a good tuner on it and double check that injector size. Unless you’re running a huge cam and 3/4 to full throttle all the time, that’s a lot of injector. Talk to fm and try and emulate their builds as they have the dyno numbers to back it up.
 

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Call and ask them what they used in their build. I would suggest also using the dyno-jet tuner so they can pre flash the tune for you. I used them on my 124 kit and it kicked ass right out of the box.
The other mandatory thing you have to install is the aim variable clutch kit with heavy duty springs. With all that torque you will be putting out, you will smoke that stock clutch in 200 miles. That is the missing link. Other than that, you won’t be able to stop smiling or coming up with excuses to ride!
 

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Forgot to clarify the induction, as in the TB and injector size, ask the builders at fuel moto what they ran and go with it. They have run multiple tests with multiple components so we don’t waste our time or money.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I appreciate the insight. Very helpful. Just curious, I have been googling but I can't find the answer: is there a drawback to having bigger injectors than I need? That is, if 5.5 would work perfectly, would there be a drawback to 6.3? Less reliable - wasted fuel - etc. They are all the same price, so that's not a factor. Thanks!
 

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Bigger injectors spray more fuel volume in the same on off on off cycle. The fuel map curve then has to have much more data logging to compensate for the air/fuel ratio.
It’s the same as a stock Chevy 350 engine with a 625 cam carburetor and then putting on a 850 cam dominator. Way too much fuel for the engine.
I went with the 5.5 and a stock throttle body because the stock heads even with a great valve job just can’t flow enough exhaust cam to compensate for the added intake charge(bigger tb) and dramatically bigger volume of fuel.
The dynamics of air flow/fuel ratio and rpm you will be riding at dictate the power curve.
Too much air too soon and your power curve will move up the rpm range away from street performance to high rpm strip performance.
Tour bikes are heavy and need torque. Your 128 has the potential for easy 135-140 ft lbs of torque from 2k on and easily 145 Hp on the top with the 5.5 injectors and the 55mm throttle body.
Call the fuel moto guys and they will tell you the combination of parts to keep it streetable and believe me, that set up will pull like a big block 540 Chevy stroker when you crack that throttle.
 
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