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Nice! I like that approach and obviously you get what you pay for. Your printouts -- details, or just power/torque vs RPM curves?



Assuming that my shop is competent, the "after" tune should be fine (and "before" run irrelevant). My suspicion is that they are running into a wall in terms of what the Harley tuner can deliver, and don't want to admit it...


Dyno tunes were before and after torque and horsepower. I was actually there during the last tune and could see the fuel trims etc.
and if they can’t tune the bike with the products they sold you they should’ve never sold you the upgrades. Dyno tuned prior to Upgrades is important because it shows you a baseline of Performance.


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Discussion Starter #22
Dyno tunes were before and after torque and horsepower. I was actually there during the last tune and could see the fuel trims etc.
and if they can’t tune the bike with the products they sold you they should’ve never sold you the upgrades. Dyno tuned prior to Upgrades is important because it shows you a baseline of Performance.
Important if you care to quantify your performance delta. I've got my HP and torque curves, not really concerned with the baseline.

You are correct, and they will be told as much. I'll float the idea of one more tune (current, with upgrades) on their dime while I'm present, thanks for the advice.
 

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Should have been run on dyno before the work and then after. That’s how my bike was done and it ran excellent. No canned map was used.


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Sure you can dyno before if you want to see the performance delta -- at your cost. Otherwise I don't see how that's relevant? Canned maps should be fine with harley parts, they are tailored to the bike and upgrade(s). Though obviously there will be room for improvement with a proper tune.

That argument aside, it's been run on the dyno now post-upgrade, and the tune is still not working out. To your earlier point, "maybe they are just using a canned map and then running it on a dyno to see the results"... man I would be pissed... I really have no way to verify what they did, other than their word. Suppose I could bring it to another shop.
In order to dyno tune at all, the bike has to be running on some version of a canned map to begin with. A tuned map is just a variation of that.

I'm sure any factory or SE canned map within the last couple of years is designed for best performance within EPA emissions limitations. My best guess is that the legal limitations of the PST just dont allow taking the AFR far enough outside of the box. Once your bike is out of warranty and you arent concerned with that anymore you can get a tuner that will do the job (unless you live in CA).

Seems to me that a good tech would run a printout of torque and horsepower curves prior to tuning just to demonstrate the improvements he is providing but thats just my opinion. I've seen a few printouts that showed both sets on one sheet but I dont think they always do.

I know I had to pay separately for printouts of my dyno runs prior and post application of my FP3 auto tune results but thats because they had to disconnect the data cable in between.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I'm sure any factory or SE canned map within the last couple of years is designed for best performance within EPA emissions limitations. My best guess is that the legal limitations of the PST just dont allow taking the AFR far enough outside of the box. Once your bike is out of warranty and you arent concerned with that anymore you can get a tuner that will do the job (unless you live in CA).
Yeah exactly my thoughts. From their perspective I can see them not wanting to accept fault for selling a system that won't run properly within those limitations... Before I go down that road, OZ has convinced me let them have another go at it. I want to speak with the tech to make sure they are not just doing their automated "performance" tuning. Taking it in on Thursday -- Hopefully it works out, but if not then you will have your answer about returning to stock pipes with the stage 2 :)

Appreciate the chat guys, very helpful!
 

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Yeah exactly my thoughts. From their perspective I can see them not wanting to accept fault for selling a system that won't run properly within those limitations... Before I go down that road, OZ has convinced me let them have another go at it. I want to speak with the tech to make sure they are not just doing their automated "performance" tuning. Taking it in on Thursday -- Hopefully it works out, but if not then you will have your answer about returning to stock pipes with the stage 2 :)



Appreciate the chat guys, very helpful!


Watch them dyno it. I put on hearing protection and was right in the booth on the last session.


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I'm not an expert but I disagree. The canned map for the cams was probably the best baseline map to work from as the bike probably would have run like crap on the stock map after the cam change, if it would even run.
I'm not totally against canned maps in general. My issue is this: Not so long ago, you could do typical "stage 1" or "stage 2" type mods and get an appropriate canned map flashed to your ECM by a dealer for a fraction of what they charge now for their street tuners. On top of that, any map or tune you get now will be very limited for emissions. I'm not saying the OP's bike didn't get tuned, but I know for a fact that many others have had to shell out big $$ for a tuner just to have a canned map loaded. The tuner is an unnecessary sale.
 

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With the tuner and cables, he can record the bike while it is being ridden and tune out the bad spots (within the tuners capabilities), and get the bike parameters on a real world tune.
 
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