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Oil Cooler Help Please

21K views 92 replies 19 participants last post by  webco2 
#1 ·
My 2015 Road King is scheduled to be delivered to me on Friday this week. This will be my first Harley and my first motorcycle after having a break of 23 years. I am sure you can imagine my excitement.

On the other hand, I wonder if anybody who has not recently been in Istanbul can imagine the traffic congestion that the bike will have to endure. Average traffic flow speeds of 3 MPH and slower are common in rush hours. Spending HOURS in this kind of traffic is not what a big air-cooled V twin looks forward to, especially in summer. IMHO, the King would highly benefit from fan assisted oil coolers under these conditions. I am considering replacing the stock oil cooler with this one and I would greatly appreciate your comments and/or suggestions:

UltraCool Chrome Oil Cooler System | 178-523 | J&P Cycles
 
#2 ·
If you are truly having to expose your beautiful new RK to extended idling and sitting in traffic I would consider more than just a fan assisted oil cooler.

There are a few actual cooling fans on the market that have a proven track record of reducing engine temps while sitting. Love jugs is one and Wards cooling fans is another. The love jugs is a true parade fan. Google them. Good luck.


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#4 ·
Thank you so much. I was not aware of the existence of these fans. The Wards seems to be more attractive to me. I think the combination of Ultra Cooler oil radiator and the Wards fans is the best I can do.

I no longer live in Istanbul so I will not have to expose the King to such catastrophic congestion daily. However, even occasional exposure is unbearable. Besides, I suppose the King will appreciate additional cooling, anyway.

I would first see if the factory cooler can handle it, if not then I would see if there is any way the fan cooler could be mounted along with the factory cooler.
Thanks fatcat. As far as I know, the factory cooler does not have fans so its effect would be negligible when the King is stationary or moving very slowly.
 
#5 ·
I use a Jagg Fan assisted oil cooler setup, and it does help, my bike doesn't go into "parade mode" anymore, since the install. If even more was needed, the head cooling fans would be next.
 
#7 ·
... If even more was needed, the head cooling fans would be next.
I totally agree on the hierarchy of additional coolers: fan assisted oil cooler first, and then; fan assisted head fin cooler if need be. "Need" is a delicate word, though. A big air/oil cooled V twin is inherently hard to cool but the MoCo is not inexperienced when it comes to the "needs" of a big V twin. :)

Excessive cooling can also be harmful but I believe this is rather unlikely, at least in most cases in Summer. Nevertheless, I am willing to pay the premium for the thermostatic control that both units offer. After all, the King will rumble in cold weather as well.

I have the Wards cooling fans on my 2012 RK, been on there for 2 years now working flawlessly. Yes I prefer the looks of the Wards over the Love Jugs. But I have read the Love Jugs move a higher volume of air.
I am so happy to hear that they work flawlessly. They may move a bit less air but looks does matter when it comes to a Harley. Besides, I am considering using them on top of forced oil cooling so I reckon they will do a decent job, altogether.
 
#9 ·
Thank you ematicic. I checked it and J&P Cycles website read: “does not fit your 2015 Harley Davidson Touring Road King FLHR”. On the other hand, I already got an impressively fast reply from Jason; the Wards guy. He seems to know what he is doing and also, how to do so.

It is so nice to be at these forums. Yesterday, I was unaware of fin cooling fans. Today, I am choosing between them. This is like a dream. I will try to contribute as much as I can, on my part.

I will start with the pics I had promised on my introduction post. I loaded the batteries to my camera. The van with which I will collect the King is scheduled for tomorrow morning. The insurance is arranged. The barbecue party with piston headed friends is scheduled for Saturday evening, in a garage. This is my last night w/o motorcycle after 2+ decades. Thank you all, once again, for your contributions and Long Live the King!
 
#11 ·
That Ultra Cool sure looks nice.
I have a 14 RK and I am hoping some day, someone, simply makes a plug in play cooling fan for our oil coolers OR a simple, plug and play oil cooler fan unit.

It seems like a simple concept and cost effective to be able to mount a fan on the oil cooler, one power lead and maybe a thermostat.
Maybe it exists, if it does, I am hoping someone posts it here.
I know there are products out there, but all seem more then I want or an adaption that is meant for a whole different range of bike makers.

I am assuming, someone out there makes a simple, bolt on fan unit to fit late model Road Kings.
 
#13 ·
I researched oil coolers and parade fans for Harleys as thoroughly as I can. I stand corrected regarding the hierarchy of their importance in stop and go traffic. I now understand that in stop and go traffic; force cooling the cylinder heads is more critical than force cooling the oil radiator.

I still couldn't give up the idea of replacing the OEM oil cooler, due to the fans and the size of the Reefer. A Wards FCS system and an Ultra-Cool Reefer are actually on their way towards me. Once I receive them, I will post installation pics and share my opinions about them.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I guess so, indeed. Thanks webco2.

Oil coolers and cylinder head fans are not the only two ways to cool down a Harley. The use of synthetic oil will help lower the temp. Also the factory fuel settings on a Harley are lean causing them to run hot. Installing a tuner will give you both a cooler and better running bike.
I am using SYN3 Harley oil already. I wonder if it lowers the temp due to less friction but it will withstand to higher temps than fossil based oil for sure.

Anyway, since I cannot improve anything that I cannot measure, I will also install a temp gauge to monitor head temp. However, I do hope that the legendary V Twin does not call for further extra cooling when a total of 4 fans blow the heat away.
 
#15 ·
Oil coolers and cylinder head fans are not the only two ways to cool down a Harley. The use of synthetic oil will help lower the temp. Also the factory fuel settings on a Harley are lean causing them to run hot. Installing a tuner will give you both a cooler and better running bike.
 
#17 ·
Today, sunshine and 14˚C (57˚F) ambient temp provoked me for a Sunday ride of about 130 km (80 miles). IMO, this big V Twin badly needs a fan assisted oil cooler.

The last few miles of the first leg of my round trip were in stop and go traffic but not severe and not for long. This was four traffic lights; idling a few minutes at each, and slow moving between them. When I finally parked after an otherwise decidedly pacific ride of 65 km (40 miles), my digital oil dipstick read 115˚C (239˚F) a few seconds after turning the ignition OFF. My return trip did not include stop and go traffic and the digital dipstick read 105˚C (221˚F), again as soon as the ignition was OFF. The ambient temp was about the same, both ways.

If the dipstick is accurate enough, these oil temps are OK, for sure, but higher than what I would expect after solo riding with no load, at such a calm pace and at such a cool ambient temp. Especially the difference the moderate stop and go traffic seemed to cause is alarming for me. I will enjoy my Harley mostly in summer, during which ambient temp would normally fluctuate between 25 and 35˚C (77 and 95˚F), occasionally higher. Much severe stop and go traffic would not be easy to avoid and I would not necessarily ride solo all the time. It seems the summer would cause oil temps that could easily press in upon the limits of the full synthetic SYN3 oil, if they do not exceed its limits from time to time.

I am very happy that I did order an Ultra-Cooler and a set of Wards fans. I am thankful to hondo2doc for letting me know about the latter and to all those who have commented about both. They are at the customs now, as well as a digital gauge for monitoring head temps. I hope to receive them all next week. I will let you all know about my installations, with pics, and about my subsequent temp readings.

I do not promise comparative readings with and without forced cooling though. I will not experiment with my beloved King, just for the sake of knowing how hot she would get if the fans were not blowing. On the other hand, I feel secure about the opposite end of the temp spectrum. Since both units are thermostatically controlled, they will not blow when the King is cool enough. However, I got the impression that in summer, once the engine gets to temp, the King will seldom be cool enough, if ever, so that the fans do not blow. I will see and let you know.
 
#33 ·
Today, sunshine and 14˚C (57˚F) ambient temp provoked me for a Sunday ride of about 130 km (80 miles). IMO, this big V Twin badly needs a fan assisted oil cooler.



The last few miles of the first leg of my round trip were in stop and go traffic but not severe and not for long. This was four traffic lights; idling a few minutes at each, and slow moving between them. When I finally parked after an otherwise decidedly pacific ride of 65 km (40 miles), my digital oil dipstick read 115˚C (239˚F) a few seconds after turning the ignition OFF. My return trip did not include stop and go traffic and the digital dipstick read 105˚C (221˚F), again as soon as the ignition was OFF. The ambient temp was about the same, both ways.



If the dipstick is accurate enough, these oil temps are OK, for sure, but higher than what I would expect after solo riding with no load, at such a calm pace and at such a cool ambient temp. Especially the difference the moderate stop and go traffic seemed to cause is alarming for me. I will enjoy my Harley mostly in summer, during which ambient temp would normally fluctuate between 25 and 35˚C (77 and 95˚F), occasionally higher. Much severe stop and go traffic would not be easy to avoid and I would not necessarily ride solo all the time. It seems the summer would cause oil temps that could easily press in upon the limits of the full synthetic SYN3 oil, if they do not exceed its limits from time to time.



I am very happy that I did order an Ultra-Cooler and a set of Wards fans. I am thankful to hondo2doc for letting me know about the latter and to all those who have commented about both. They are at the customs now, as well as a digital gauge for monitoring head temps. I hope to receive them all next week. I will let you all know about my installations, with pics, and about my subsequent temp readings.



I do not promise comparative readings with and without forced cooling though. I will not experiment with my beloved King, just for the sake of knowing how hot she would get if the fans were not blowing. On the other hand, I feel secure about the opposite end of the temp spectrum. Since both units are thermostatically controlled, they will not blow when the King is cool enough. However, I got the impression that in summer, once the engine gets to temp, the King will seldom be cool enough, if ever, so that the fans do not blow. I will see and let you know.

My pleasure I think you will be very pleased with the wards fans. Funny thing any one new that rides with me always asks what that noise is after I shut off the bike. Well it is the fans, as they continue to run even after shutting down the bike to cool the heads. The fans shut off automatically via the thermostat. It is a nice feature especially when making several short stops at different places the fans will continue to keeps the heads cool. Good luck.


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#18 ·
#20 ·
Thank you SoftailBilly. You have been very informative for me. Besides, not producing as much heat in the first place makes more sense than dissipating the excess afterwards. I have to see what the dealer will say about the warranty, though.

Having similar concerns i installed a high capacity oil pan, which holds 6.5 quarts of oil instead of 5...more oil cooler bike.

Its made by harley davidson screamin eagle check it out...on average my bike runs 7-8 degrees cooler than my buddies
Thank you SoldierX. I am aware of the high capacity oil pan but it is expensive. IMHO, the oil in it would eventually reach as high temps but this would only take longer. Therefore, I believe forced cooling is not only more cost effective but also, thermodynamically more effective.
 
#19 ·
My 2015 Road King is scheduled to be delivered to me on Friday this week. This will be my first Harley and my first motorcycle after having a break of 23 years. I am sure you can imagine my excitement.



On the other hand, I wonder if anybody who has not recently been in Istanbul can imagine the traffic congestion that the bike will have to endure. Average traffic flow speeds of 3 MPH and slower are common in rush hours. Spending HOURS in this kind of traffic is not what a big air-cooled V twin looks forward to, especially in summer. IMHO, the King would highly benefit from fan assisted oil coolers under these conditions. I am considering replacing the stock oil cooler with this one and I would greatly appreciate your comments and/or suggestions:



UltraCool Chrome Oil Cooler System | 178-523 | J&P Cycles

Having similar concerns i installed a high capacity oil pan, which holds 6.5 quarts of oil instead of 5...more oil cooler bike.

Its made by harley davidson screamin eagle check it out...on average my bike runs 7-8 degrees cooler than my buddies
 
#24 ·
I been running the Love Jugs cooling fans for almost 3 years, and I can say without a dought they work flawlessly....with the solid frame mount..I do PGR missions in over 100* Texas heat and they work..I was one of their very first customers,and have one of the first sets they made..and customer sevice is top notch...Steve at Love Jugs will do what ever it takes to help ya out...I'am in no way connected to them...just being honest...Love Jugs are great products....
 
#28 ·
Open loop is during full throttle.

Closed loop is during cruising as on the highway.

You want AFR for both to be ~13.5, and it looks like the second one you listed is the only one that can accomplish that.



Looks like on his particular bike, 2009, he didn't need the adjustables.
 
#29 ·
The AF version gets feedback from the O2 sensors and can maintain the AFR in real time. Is better IMO.

The non AF just adds the resistance off set and let's the original ECM map run with an offset that cause the system to run richer thereby cooler.

I run the old XIED so am not adjustable for level of enrichment.
 
#30 ·
Running the fans for cooling with 13.5 ratio will help with the engine heat in your traffic conditions. Gas engines are designed originally to run in the 13.5 range. The 14.7 is lean condition only to reduce smog emissions, not a happy place for the engine. Going with a richer mixture will make your engines performance better and you happy in heavy traffic. Go with what Kainam & BBally suggest. If you buy the adjustable ones just set it for 13.5 range and ride. In event I move to warmer area like Arizona, may consider fans. I am running the old style non adjustable ones
and very happy. Also using the Screaming Eagle air cleaner kit and 3 inch slip on mufflers. So my engine flowing way more air. You want to hit the 13.5 ratio as close as possible and the simplest and most reliable way. Sometimes referred to as KISS.
 
#31 ·
I get it that 13.5 AFR is better, even if my Harley runs cool enough thanks to the fans, despite the relatively lean factory tune. Since I already invested in the Wards cooling fans and the Ultra-Cool oil cooler, I will first see if she does run cool enough or not. If not, richer AFR will be a necessity, anyway. If she runs cool enough, I will come across a dilemma. I would like to give her the AFR she deserves but I wouldn't particularly like to modify her electronics. Nevertheless, I hope I come across this dilemma.

I know there is some self-contradiction in the above. I wish richening the mixture was a matter of re-jetting the carburetor(s). But gone are the good old days (of dirt cheap leaded fuel)! Unfortunately, the digital world is too scary for me.
 
#34 ·
I have finally installed my Ultra-Cool Reefer. Here is how it went.

The oil filter is to be removed, first. Therefore, it was time to fabricate a funnel out of a soda bottle:

It worked perfectly. No single drop of oil:

Then, the threaded air filter mount in the center should be removed:

The base should be cleaned and degreased:

This is where the supplied oil filter adaptor which also houses the thermal sensor should be installed:

The adaptor is installed. The supplied special tool is very convenient for tightening the braided hoses as below. I wish it was a bit more solid but eventually, it did the job. Also note the Ultra-Cool Reefer at the bottom, with the chrome cover off:

And now, with the chrome cover on. Also note the supplied electric harness that is plugged-in to the thermal sensor. What remains is installing the oil filter and routing the cables:

The indicator light shows when the fans are on but first, this must be installed somewhere visible to the rider. Drilling the handlebar bolt cover seemed to be the least tragic option. We stuffed the hole with silicone sealant before introducing the indicator light. I hope the HD chrome withstands the abuse:

It now looks like this:

The chrome cover is nice and the cooler seems to befit the overall appearance of the King:

My test ride confirmed that there are no leaks and that the indicator light operates properly. I have very little experience so far but at least, I can witness that the fans start blowing once the oil reaches about 108˚C (226˚F) according to the HD digital dipstick. This happened after a sedate run as short as 30 km (19 miles), solo with no load, at an ambient temp of 12˚C (54˚F). However, the fans would not blow under these circumstances if I had not stopped and idled for less than two minutes. In fact, they stopped blowing when I moved on they did not re-start blowing until I hit a stop and go traffic. This was not severe at all. I waited only until the first green light at each traffic light and I was not slow moving between them. Nevertheless, the fans started to blow at the fourth traffic light and they did not stop until I exit the big city and reach steady speeds of 110-120 km/h (70-75 mph).

I wonder what oil temps I will see in summer. I will keep you posted. In the meantime, I would like to answer any questions, as far as I can.
 
#36 ·
I finally had to expose my lovely King to the traffic congestion in Istanbul. It was a nice sunny day, with ambient temp around 20˚C (68˚F). In city center; riding means idling before moving at first or second gear for a few seconds and then, idling again. Most of this was two-up. Heat was terrible. The seat became hot after a while. So hot as burning my bottom. It was burning so effectively that we had to stop for cooling our butts. The moment I parked the King, the digital oil dipstick was reading 121˚C (250˚F).

Needless to say, the fans of the oil-cooler and the Wards fans were all running uninterrupted. God knows how high the dipstick would read without these four fans running like crazy all the time. And I wonder how high it will read when ambient temp will be 30-35˚C (85-95˚F) in summer. I also wonder what will happen to us.

We sat on a wooden bank by the Bosporus to enjoy the view while cooling down. My full face helmet was under my elbow, as an armrest. When we resumed cruising (crawling?), the wooden bank was stained. The oval shape of the base of my helmet was stamped on wood. The interior padding of my helmet was not moist with sweat but wet. That wet. I detested having to put in on again (yes, this is mandatory at this end). It did not dry until late night, when I returned home via the highway at normal cruising speeds. This was the most disgusting example of evaporative cooling I have ever experienced. My helmet was still moist the next morning. I am now installing a small fan to the wall in my garage, just under the hook of my helmet hanger. It will slowly blow into the helmet. That is; my fan assisted oil cooler lead to a fan assisted helmet hanger. I immediately placed my order for an open face helmet.

I believe 121˚C (250˚F) is not a concern for the oil. Thanks to the fans, I hope this will not get so hot as to be a concern for the synthetic engine oil I am using (H-D Syn3). At the moment, butt barbecue seems to be the main potential concern.
 
#38 ·
Recently installed the Ultra Cool on an 09 FLHTCU. There are some omissions in the instructions. 1) no instruction to place the cover on the unit after placing the cooler on the bracket. It is actually easier to place it on before placing on the bracket and sliding the cover forward out of the way while working. 2. Fails to advise to ground the LED. Fairly obvious but still an omission. Finally two alternate recommendations. 1. Mount the hoses to the oil filter adapter first. It is a tight space and a free hose is easier to work with. Access to mount hose to cooler is better and less need for freedom of movement in the hose. 2. Remove left side lower if you have one and shift linkage. Access is vastly improved especially for small bolts that hold adapter together that torque to 72 in-lbs.
 
#39 ·
I hope you appreciate the Ultra Cooler as much as I do. After putting about 8000 km (5000 miles) since the install, I take this as an opportunity for an update:

I made a week-long tour at ambient temperatures that varied between 35 and 42˚C (95 and 108˚F). I also made lots of daily commutes at similar ambient temps. The fans turn ON automatically when the oil temp reaches 108˚C (226˚F). Thereafter, they seem to keep oil temp rise in check. It is clear that they are quite beneficial when idling and slow moving. At very hot weather, they turn ON even at cruising speeds on a highway but I wonder if they are of help when so much wind is already hitting the radiator. No matter what, I never read higher than 125˚C (257˚F) on my digital dipstick just after killing the engine. However, please keep in mind that I am also using Wards fans in addition to this oil cooler.
 
#42 ·
I live in so. fla. where it gets pretty warm in the summer. I have a 2003 flsts. I have an external oil cooler and love jugs cooling fans and my oil temps are 190 crusing and 205 at interstate 80mph. check out the love jugs site. I think they used a road king for the test. Idled the bike for 12 hrs I think. anyway a good site with lots of info.
 
#45 ·
I want the oil to exceed 100˚C (212˚F) anyway. Below this, water will not evaporate. Water in oil is inevitable due to condensation when cooling down. IMO, your oil temp is too low.

I 2nd. what Webco recommended with adding XIEDS. There very easy, my girl friend can do it:smile. You should notice a better throttle response around town and accelerating at part throttle. Do you still have the catalytic converters on The King? Get rid of them and more heat will go away. Get more power from engine.
You can take the liner out of your helmet to let it try faster. Good Luck.
I am sure your girlfriend can do so many things that I would refrain from.:laughing I am an analog man in this digital world. For example, I still don’t have a smart phone! The catalytic converters are still on, mainly due to fear from the response of the electronics to their removal. Secondly, I think the King would be too loud for me if I remove them. I already have the Street Cannons. They sound just as loud as I like. More than that would be too much for me. Finally, it is illegal to remove them at this end. However, I do detest catalytic converters and my third excuse for keeping them is not so serious. I will not go to jail if I remove them.

Your oil temps are not bad, but could be better .

Xieds are just as easy as it looks, unplug a plug, plug them in between .

You're a big boy tho, so it's up to you . :thumb
When I was not yet a big boy, carb tuning and then synchronizing was the norm. I was good at such things. This may seem like a complex job for youngsters but I do miss these good old days. I knew what I was doing. I was in communication with what I was doing. I was involved and the outcome was rewarding. Now, simply plugging “something” to a cable that goes “somewhere” can still be rewarding, as you point out. But this reward would be mysterious for me, if not somewhat scary. I want to stay out of the territory of the ECU.
 
#43 ·
I 2nd. what Webco recommended with adding XIEDS. There very easy, my girl friend can do it:smile. You should notice a better throttle response around town and accelerating at part throttle. Do you still have the catalytic converters on The King? Get rid of them and more heat will go away. Get more power from engine.
You can take the liner out of your helmet to let it try faster. Good Luck.
 
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