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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I believe I've figured out what's going on with my 2010 FXDC. I had no issues with the bike at all in 3000 miles of riding since purchasing it. I recently did an oil and filter change on it and my first ride out with it I noticed that it seemed to be underpowered and struggling to maintain speed. Especially at higher speeds. Upon returning home I discovered the engine was MUCH hotter than normal. I checked the oil to make sure I hadn't accidentally underfilled or overfilled it and the oil wasn't even touching the dipstick. I added oil until it almost reached the full line (about 2/3 quart) and took it back out for a short ride. I once again checked the level upon returning home and it was 2/3 quart OVERFILLED. I removed a half quart to get it back down to the full line. Since then I've taken it on a few short rides and continue to see sporadic oil levels when checking, loss of power (like I'm dragging extra weight), Very hot engine temps compared to before changing the oil, and most of all, my mpg has dropped from about 48mpg to about 36mpg. After much research, these are all classic symptoms of sumping. What could have caused my bike to start doing this after changing the oil and filter, and more importantly, what do I do now to actually fix it? I can't seem to find ANY info on that at all. If you can offer any help or suggestions I would greatly appreciate it!
 

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Time to start shopping for a Oil pump and Cam plate.

I would start with some exploratory surgery myself...
A factory service manual is going to be a MUST...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Well, just on a hunch, I started thinking that maybe the brand new harley filter that I put on when I did the oil change might be defective (bad check valve), something. Figured it couldn't hurt to grab a different filter and some new oil and do another oil change. Only 1.2 quarts of oil actually drained out. I put 1.2 quarts of new oil back in and it filled it perfectly, as well as a K&N filter instead of a Harley filter. Immediately the bike felt better, and within 5 miles of riding, it felt as perfect as ever. I rode 39 miles and it took .882 gallons to fill it so even my mileage is almost back to normal. I don't know what's wrong with that Harley filter they gave me, but it's either the wrong one or defective and caused the sumping condition. Unfortunately upon inspecting the 1.2 quarts of oil I drained out, i found this. Lots of little gold/brass colored flakes. Not a drop of these were stuck to the magnetic drain plug so these flakes are definitely NOT magnetic. Obviously the sumping did some wear and tear on something. I'm scared to find out what. Any ideas?
 

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Well, just on a hunch, I started thinking that maybe the brand new harley filter that I put on when I did the oil change might be defective (bad check valve), something. Figured it couldn't hurt to grab a different filter and some new oil and do another oil change. Only 1.2 quarts of oil actually drained out. I put 1.2 quarts of new oil back in and it filled it perfectly, as well as a K&N filter instead of a Harley filter. Immediately the bike felt better, and within 5 miles of riding, it felt as perfect as ever. I rode 39 miles and it took .882 gallons to fill it so even my mileage is almost back to normal. I don't know what's wrong with that Harley filter they gave me, but it's either the wrong one or defective and caused the sumping condition. Unfortunately upon inspecting the 1.2 quarts of oil I drained out, i found this. Lots of little gold/brass colored flakes. Not a drop of these were stuck to the magnetic drain plug so these flakes are definitely NOT magnetic. Obviously the sumping did some wear and tear on something. I'm scared to find out what. Any ideas?
I'd hang on to that bad filter... Just sayin'
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I have it saved. And will be taking a ride to the harley dealership I bought it from along with that pic. But from what I've read on here about Harley dealers, there's probably zero chance that they're going to accept any responsibility for this. Which is sad because if the damage is severe, I'm pretty much out the 9 grand I just spent for and put into this bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I thought about that, just don't wanna destroy it in case the dealership says they have to have it intact for inspection. Is there any kind of specific tests they can do on the engine to find out where those particles came from and whether or not the bike is toast? I'm disgusted right now.
 

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I thought about that, just don't wanna destroy it in case the dealership says they have to have it intact for inspection. Is there any kind of specific tests they can do on the engine to find out where those particles came from and whether or not the bike is toast? I'm disgusted right now.
Go to the Blackstone Labs website, they do oil sampling for reasonable cost. They'll send you a free sample kit and after sampling will issue you a comprehensive report. It used to cost $25.00 !
 

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Well, just on a hunch, I started thinking that maybe the brand new harley filter that I put on when I did the oil change might be defective (bad check valve), something. Figured it couldn't hurt to grab a different filter and some new oil and do another oil change. Only 1.2 quarts of oil actually drained out. I put 1.2 quarts of new oil back in and it filled it perfectly, as well as a K&N filter instead of a Harley filter. Immediately the bike felt better, and within 5 miles of riding, it felt as perfect as ever. I rode 39 miles and it took .882 gallons to fill it so even my mileage is almost back to normal. I don't know what's wrong with that Harley filter they gave me, but it's either the wrong one or defective and caused the sumping condition. Unfortunately upon inspecting the 1.2 quarts of oil I drained out, i found this. Lots of little gold/brass colored flakes. Not a drop of these were stuck to the magnetic drain plug so these flakes are definitely NOT magnetic. Obviously the sumping did some wear and tear on something. I'm scared to find out what. Any ideas?
Have you checked the troublesome H-D filter part number against what is specified for your FXDC? Maybe they sold you the wrong filter.

Edit: You mentioned you had saved the H-D filter & were going to take it w/your photos to the dealer. Be sure to take the dealership receipt/invoice w/you as well. Before you go in, check the part number on the invoice w/the part number on the H-D filter body they gave you. BTW, you mentioned you put on a K&N filter so I looked up the K&N part number for your bike, & it's a 171-C, same as on my 04 FXDLI. K&N's a great brand IMO & I've used their filter on Harley for many years w/no problems ever. Also use K&N's on my other vehicles.
 

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Is it possible that what I thought was sumping was actually the oil filter impeding oil flow and the flakes are damage as a result of certain parts not getting enough oil?
First things first, the 'flakes' need to be identified. The oil needs to be sampled to determine what the material belonged to in the first place. I provided the website for oil sampling that I've used in the past. Blackstone Labs provides inexpensive oil sampling for automotive engines. Otherwise you're just theorising your 'sumping' issue !
 
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You have a lot of metal flakes in the oil...
First things first, the 'flakes' need to be identified. The oil needs to be sampled to determine what the material belonged to in the first place.
The engine is obviously making metal, so it must be disassembled to find out what the issue is.

A lab report isn`t going to be of any help in this situation, just a waste of time and money.
 

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I don`t think the filter has anything to do with the issue, a bad filter is not going to affect the scavenge side of the oil circuit on a TC engine.

Get into the cam chest and inspect, including pinion shaft runout.
And he will probably find the oil pump with unusual wear pattern from crankshaft wobble.


Not a drop of these were stuck to the magnetic drain plug so these flakes are definitely NOT magnetic. Obviously the sumping did some wear and tear on something. I'm scared to find out what. Any ideas?
Brass? Aluminum? Saying gold, Not much brass in the engine, thrust washer on the crank, bushing in cam plate? The sumping probably did not create damage, see the sumping as the result of the something else going south IE crank wobble slowly damaging to oil pump so reducing it operation, can be stuck open piston oiler jet, or can be a simple thing like the o ring was pinch during oil pump installation. In your case, a deeper investigation will be in order! filter will not make metal! something is probably slowly eating itself inside your engine. Oil pan can also be contaminated. You can always try to replace oil and filter put some miles on it check oil again, cut the filter open. With only 3000 miles this is a brand new engine, yes you can see some debris on new engine during oil change, but that look like a lot, how many oil changes since you had the bike?

Oil analysis will tell you for sure where the flakes are coming from, but most of that crap went into the oil pump + your sumping issue, so as a minimum the oil pump must be inspected for damages.
 

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An NDI report will reveal lots...just have to know what to look for...
The engine is making metal big enough to see...

It has to come apart, and then you will see the problem.

Lab reports are no help after the problem has trashed the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
All great info and much appreciated. To clarify, I've put 3000 miles on it since buying it from the original owner. It had 31000 on it when I bought it. He bought it brand new and everything has been dealer serviced since day 1. I changed the oil the day I bought it,. Zero metal in the oil and all 2.7 quarts came out during the change. Rode it 3000 miles, and changed it again a week ago. Again, zero metal and all 2.7 quarts came out. 3 miles into my first ride after changing the oil a week ago, everything started. Loss of power, running hot, burning oil smell, drop in mpg, and inconsistent oil levels on dipstick. I changed the oil again because of this and only 1.2 quarts came out filled with those flakes. Put a new K&N Filter on and added 1.2 quarts back in and after just 5 or so miles the bike felt completely normal again and mpg has already gone back up from 33mpg to 42mpg. Running normal temp, no hot oil smell, and consistent oil level on dipstick. Just as good as the first 3000 miles. But obviously something was damaged in that short time. That metal didn't come from nowhere. Just can't understand how I put that oil filter on and immediately everything went to crap, I replace it and everything immediately goes back to normal if that's not what caused it? Idk. But probably going to be some costly investigating and repair, and if the filter does indeed end up being the culprit, definitely not expenses that I should be having to pay for. But.....such is life I guess.
 
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