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NDI"s are quite useful whether the engine comes apart or not.....if for anything, for trend analysis.
Now you are just looking for an argument. There is no trend here, the engine is making metal.

Go ahead and get your last word in.
 

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In all likelihood, there is some major damage to at least one bearing. There's just no way the engine was noticeably dragging without some damage. Anything that's a roller
bearing is probably OK, but plain bearings require oil pressure 100% of the time.
 

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Well, just on a hunch, I started thinking that maybe the brand new harley filter that I put on when I did the oil change might be defective (bad check valve), something. Figured it couldn't hurt to grab a different filter and some new oil and do another oil change. Only 1.2 quarts of oil actually drained out. I put 1.2 quarts of new oil back in and it filled it perfectly, as well as a K&N filter instead of a Harley filter. Immediately the bike felt better, and within 5 miles of riding, it felt as perfect as ever. I rode 39 miles and it took .882 gallons to fill it so even my mileage is almost back to normal. I don't know what's wrong with that Harley filter they gave me, but it's either the wrong one or defective and caused the sumping condition. Unfortunately upon inspecting the 1.2 quarts of oil I drained out, i found this. Lots of little gold/brass colored flakes. Not a drop of these were stuck to the magnetic drain plug so these flakes are definitely NOT magnetic. Obviously the sumping did some wear and tear on something. I'm scared to find out what. Any ideas?
I only use Wix or NAPA GOLD oil filters. They are the best on the market, although a K&N is pretty good too.
 

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I carefully read your first 2 posts and i think you about proved the filter as the culprit. I wasn’t aware Harley had a check valve in the filter, but i think your suspicion is a good one. I wish I would have saved my Harley filter from my new bike, but I tossed and installed K&N when i did my break in service…Based on your first post, you recreated issues on more than 1 ride. You then replaced the filter, problem solved and I assume has not yet returned? Keep that filter!

Because this stared immediately after the oil change, check and confirm you were provided the correct filter. I cant imagine any filter that is not faulty would cause this, so I agree with you on the faulty filter suspicion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I had a friend point me in the direction of the BEST indy Harley mechanic in the area. He'll be opening up the engine on Saturday to determine the extent of internal damage. Yes I saved the filter, as well as the oil I removed full of the flakes. I'm just not sure how to proceed to determine/prove the filter caused the sumping and ultimately the damage. If I take it to a Harley dealer, they're certainly not going to admit anything, even if they find it to be faulty. If I have anyone else cut it open for inspection, I have no doubt they will say there's nothing I can do as I didn't bring it to them for inspection. Best I can hope for is that the mechanic finds the culprit that produced the brass flakes and fixes it and that they haven't done any hidden further damage that may reveal itself in time. Frustrating to say the least.
 

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I had a friend point me in the direction of the BEST indy Harley mechanic in the area. He'll be opening up the engine on Saturday to determine the extent of internal damage. Yes I saved the filter, as well as the oil I removed full of the flakes. I'm just not sure how to proceed to determine/prove the filter caused the sumping and ultimately the damage. If I take it to a Harley dealer, they're certainly not going to admit anything, even if they find it to be faulty. If I have anyone else cut it open for inspection, I have no doubt they will say there's nothing I can do as I didn't bring it to them for inspection. Best I can hope for is that the mechanic finds the culprit that produced the brass flakes and fixes it and that they haven't done any hidden further damage that may reveal itself in time. Frustrating to say the least.
Good, I am very interested in what happed. Please keep us in the loop.
 

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I wouldn't be able to hold my water, I'd have to remove the cam cover for a look see. I'd hazard a guess that the brassy looking flakes came from the cam drive sprocket spacers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Yup. I've had a Honda ACE Tourer, a Kawasaki Nomad 1500 and a Kawasaki Nomad 1600 over the past 10 years and have ridden over 150,000 miles on the 3 of them combined without a single internal repait needed. This is my first Harley and am dealing with this after only 3 months and 3000 miles. Not necessarily instilling me with a lot of confidence in Harley dependability.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Mechanic got everything apart today. The brass flakes are from a bushing in the cam plate that the crank?/cam?pinion? shaft goes through. Can't remember which shaft he said. Anyway, he said he didn't think it was from wobble as he checked the runout and Harley specs says anything .12 or under was acceptable and this shaft runout is .055. He said there is actually a hole that oil travels through to oil this bushing and he thinks the oil pump is going bad causing not enough oil to reach this bushing which caused the friction wear. He is recommending replacing both the oil pump and cam plate with either Screamin Eagle or S&S. So that is what I'm going to do. He said he checked EVERYTHING else out in there (hydraulic tensioners, shoes, cams, rockers, bearings, etc. and sees no other wear or damage on anything else. He said he has a scope of some kind that he can look inside the cylinders as well and make sure all looks well there too. And he said he's going to have to drain the sump to remove any oil/flakes trapped there as well. I have a picture of the cam plate and the damage but can't figure out how to load it here.
 
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