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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Here is what is happening and here is what I have done so far. There is a chain like noise here and there when riding in first and second gear when not much power is being given more like when cruising speeds. This is what I have done so far in the search and seek department. I took off the clutch drum and had a Harley Mechanic install a new clutch hub bearing and inspected the clutch. He thought the bearing I had was OK' there was a little wiggle and even after the new one still has wiggle. I installed a brand new primary chain I got at a deal off ebay $22. I noticed the adjuster bracket has some wear and rocks a bit and think this may be part of the problem. I just purchased one for $22 new but that was this morning off ebay. When I had the clutch drum off I noticed some wear on the shifter linkage dentent that appears to be rubbing the flywheel although I olny see a little of what appears to be starter gouge on a few teeth. This started after a got it and changed the oil with Mobile 1 20 50 synthetic oil. I am hoping I do not have to tear down the tranny and install new shaft roller bearings and this is not gears meshing. I have these pictures I got off the internet that are a bit more extreme than my shifter linkage. Could this be the shift shaft bushing on a 1993 883 XLH Hugger 5 speed ? I have had some metal on the drain plug and mixed metalic partical in the oil twice drained and replaced. I found this photo of a removed shifter pawl and see the bearing on the rear end of the shaft and wonder if this would be why the pawl is rubbing the clutch drum causing the wear. "Update" ripped her down and had another looksee but was unable to remove the clutch drum as I do not have a 1 3/16ths socket on hand I will get one in the morning. There seems to be an awful lot of play at the pawl carrier end. I also noticed there is room for adjustment on the carrier and that maybe the shaft is somewhat cocked causing it to rub the clutch drum. It has over 26,000 miles and at least 5 shifts per mile that's a lot of wear and tear. also the nuts holding it on where not very tight and figured it may have slipped a bit causing a binding on the bushings. I at this point am a bit more comfortable in the thought of not having to rip out the tranny. I will try to adjust it and put it back together and see if the noise at least stops. Less metal fragments when I drained the oil this time but still a small amount on the drain plug. Looking into a replacement shaft and pawl in any case as it seems really worn. I,ll keep you updated. Here is a video of the chain replacement https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb_TOiNF9Mk&feature=youtu.be New update Today I removed the clutch drum and shift shaft and the pawl carrier bushing looks really worn out. Anyone have a part number out there? 1993 883 Hugger XLH. New video of the shaft https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIt6k1TnskQ&feature=youtu.be
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Went to the Harley stealer (Nice Place Hog Heaven) and bought bushings for the shift shaft and the primary cover a new seal and a qt of fluid. took a ride about 2 miles and the dreaded noise returns. Emptied the case and still some small amount of metal on the drain plug. Ripped out the chain adjuster and took it apart. I filed down the step washer for the bracket of the nylon shoe until it was as snug and a bug in a rug and reinstalled it. (New one should be here by Friday). I'm so tiered the test ride will have to wait until the AM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
The saga continues: Took it for a run and sounded fine for about 8 miles then faintly the noise was returning. Still waiting on the replacement Primary chain adjuster coming to FL from Mass. May not see it until Monday. Took it out again today and within a mile there it was as bad as it had been. I looked over the drive sprocket and see absolutely No wear on the teeth or the sprocket itself any were. I am no rocket scientist by any means but I really do not think this is transmission related in any case unless I continue to ignore this issue and allow metal to slowly grind away at the tranny caged bearings (Nylon and steel for the gears) When I got this bike not 5 months ago it was not doing this only after I remover the original oil that looked like it was from the same year as the f in bike. The primary chain is brand new the engine drive sprocket is tight and shows no wear. The clutch drum has more wiggle after the damn guy I bought it to supposedly put a new clutch basket bearing on it and now there is no drag when I roll as there was before. I think he gave me one off an older sportster that was sitting there with the cylinders removed. I*n any case I will rip it apart myself and do it right like I should have in the first place. other than the new adjuster short of ripping out the tranny the only thing I can think of is a dry sprocket after removing it and the clutch drum. HD calls for 32 onces of primary oil and I somehow just do not think that it is enough to lubricate the primary chain and the main drive sprocket but may be sufficient to lubricate the transmission gears. I do know some grease is used on the bearings and figure maybe I better grease at least the front sprocket or use more oil to get it broken back in. This is really pissing me off but being a Scorpio I won't quit until it does. The worst part is I never in my wildest dreams thought that I would have to baby a Harley Davidson.
 

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Too much for these old eyes.

You gotta break it into paragraphs so it is readable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Oh what a day. soaked the chain and re installed the clutch basket chain and forward sprocket.The adjuster showed up and I couldn't even turn the thing. I had to back off on the nut remove the shoe put it in the case tighten it a bit then slip the shoe on. Put it all back together and stupid me moved the shifter. I got up to fifth gear and couldn't get it lower than fourth as I limped back home. Took the cover back off and made an adjustment and that's when I see maring on the primary case where the clutch basket is hiting it. This explains the aluminum flake in the oil when draining and the metal fragments are coming from the edge of the clutch basket. put it together and went for a ride. had to jam the shifter to get it back in to second and realy hard to get first. I just lossened the chain a tad and will try it again tomorrow. I'm sure I just need to go back more on the shifter adjustment. I didn't here hardly any of the noise I had before so maybe I just might have this thing back in service soon. Look at the video with the clutch basket and you can see how shinny the edge of it is from rubbing the case. Maybe I can use two gaskets to compensate it some.
 

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Looks as if you found your problem. Renew bearings in hub, Don't overtighten the chain when reinstalling the trans holds 32 oz. of oil, don't use more, using more will cause the clutch to drag, making shifting hard. Don't worry, when running, the case is a virtual tornado of oil thrown around by the moving clutch and chain. Oil gets everywhere!
 

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Using two gaskets is not going to solve the problem.

The outer clutch shell is contacting the cover, which means the outer shell is in the wrong position.

A side effect of the clutch being in the wrong position is that it will cause the clutch to not properly disengage, which also could be the cause of your shifting problem.

Loose clutch hub retaining nut?

Pull and push on the inner hub, does it move in and out?

If the clutch is removed, push and pull on the mainshaft.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks I went for now with a qt of Quicksilver 20 50 Motorcycle 4 stroke for V twin. That's the sad part I paid a little shop with Harleys there to replace the bearing $60. The bearing looks new as in one of the previous videos but has to much play. I have to remove the cover at least one more time to adjust the shifter and grind a bit if the cover as a temp fix. I'm broke. Bought more than 6 quarts of oil last month trying to figure this thing out. I am thankful that the tranny is not the culprit. I will post a picture of the cover damage a bit later today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The cover has guide sleeves to keep it in place. it cannot be offset unless I remove them or grind the cover at the pin area. I would rather for now sand or grind the case where it is getting hit by the Basket edge. I wonder if that's why the taper is there that when Halrey made it they found out the cover was to close and cut the edge of the basket to within 10 thousands of clearance as a fix so to not have to make a totally new cover or basket for it. The spot where it is hitting is only on one small spot of the cover near the clutch cable entrance which is also why it was undetected until yesterday. Yes I believe the basket bearing job they did was either botched by them or the bearing they used is faulty. I cannot have it redone at present I did find a place in Sarasota Bearing Marketing and will go to them for the replacement bearing not some china crap.
 

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So you are thinking that you had a bad clutch hub bearing, and the one that replaced it was bad also?

Highly unlikely, to say the least...

Grinding away the case to make up for excessive end play of a bearing is just asking for trouble, jury rigging will only turn your transmission into junk...

You need to check the end play of the mainshaft (the shaft that the hub mounts onto).

But it`s your bike, do whatever you want...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Update after removing the cover to readjust the shifter which took two try's I notice the case is not damaged from the clutch drum. It was done by the factory. Picture below. It would be impossible for the drum to reach that area of the case. I took it for a ride and finally got the setting right and all gears are working normally again. I did hear some of the noise as before a lot less but after coming home thought I would check out the kickstand and made a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYcV0au9-hQ&feature=youtu.be it dose not take much to make it rattle and possibly could be the source of the noise. The metal is more than likely coming from the starter hitting the loose drum sheering small particals of metal. As for the aluminum in the oil swirling I have not seem much of it the last 3 times I emptied it. Always added new oil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Here is the video I don't know if you saw it in the earlier post. The bearing the guy gave back to me is the old one and had less play than the new one he installed and said they all have some wiggle. I thought that Unlikely but someone screwed it up Not me I just had to pay for it There is No play on the trans main shaft at all. Posted the wrong video here ya go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35ESwzkT1c8&feature=youtu.be
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The closest sound I could use to describe it is it is if the oil pump gears where worn and meshing. Did an oil change a week ago no metal of any kind in the engine. It's been making noise a lot longer than that as well. I never hear in in neutral or in gear with the clutch in. I never hear it in 3rd fourth or fifth gear. I hear it now only when I pull the clutch in around second and then to first gear as if something where loose or rattling. It makes me crazy not to know what it is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
last post for a while. I just went to Walmart and got 3 quarts of Quicksilver 20 50 wt motorcycle 4 stroke v twin oil as I had bought 15 50 Mobile 1. I thought it was 4 T racing motorcycle oil but not so sure so I.m going to empty it out and use the air cooled engine oil. I have enough issues without messing up the engine. I will use metal tape to hold the kick stand still on my next ride after the oil change. Hopefully I will not hear the sound. If I can I will Tape my camera to my leg near the case so at least you will be able to hear the noise. It rained like all hell a while ago. I.m beat. If I find anything useful I will then pick the post back up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Did the oil change last night. Today after it stopped raining, I took the bike for a test ride, get gas & smokes and it was drizzling again went down a few side streets and just faintly heard the noise for a second then didn't hear it anymore. I tried to coast with the clutch in a lot and it seemed fine. Hard to tell until I get a chance to take it for a longer ride hopefully later on this afternoon. Fingers are crossed. The oil that came out originally in it from the last owner was black and thin. the 15 50 Mobil one I took out from last week was brown and black. I am thinking the oil was too thin and that it just may have been the oil pump gears without enough viscosity. There was no metal of any king in the removed oil. (Good Sign nothing got damaged) I even looked at the oil from the filter (Hi Flo with No Bypass) and no sign or metal anywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Took a long ride yesterday and didn't have any issues until I got to the beach boat ramp area. Packed really bumpy sand road. The noise there it was. Seems to always do it on this road. I know a Harley ain't no Dirt bike but it shouldn't make this noise on that road. Sounds like tinging your finger on a chain link fence. I couldn't use the camera as it was wet out. I will hopefully be able to post something soon.
 

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Mine used to rattle and make noise on certain roads like crazy. I was like is it the engine, or is it in the primary/trans? What is that noise.......


Turned out it was the horn rattling on whatever it was rattling on. Was so long ago I forgot what it was. I bent it out further and tightened it up, hasn't done it since. Now I just listen to the normal clicks, clatters whirls and whines of air running around and from it.

Too many people mistake normal sportster sounds as something wrong and try to fix it. In the end they end up breaking it. Run the right fluid in the primary and call it good. Put motor oil in the engine and as long as you got a GL1 spec fluid in the 80/90-20w50 viscosity spec you are good for the primary. Only other GL1 I have seen is at TSC for old ford tractors but it's viscosity range is in the 10w40 range so it's too thin. Formula+ is the only GL1 I've seen with the right viscosity spec so that's what I run and everyone I know who runs it are the only people I know who don't have premature primary and trans problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well the video I made first didn't record the second one I made you can't make it out. It happened again the other day after a ride of less than 17 miles. Took it apart and still havn't been able to find anything except metal on the drain plug after only three small rides. I made a compressor and took the clutch basket apart and removed the bearing and it was in sad shape for a new bearing. I rode all over the place on Saturday looking for the bearing including the dealer Manitee River Harley Davidson. They didn't stock it. Rather than wait rode several placed and found one at Nappa but it too was a sloppy bearing with way too much play so I made a purchase on Hog Nutz for the bearing which could take a week to get here. I also thought it might be the horn but held it with my hand when the noise is happening and it didn't stop. So I,m hoping the wiggle of the drum is the problem as once the teeth on the starter gear on the drum gets affected it creates a snowball affect to the rest of the teeth so while waiting I knocked off the ring gear and flipped it around to the good side. They do not sell just the ring gear for this year. The whole outer basket drum cost over $400. As much as I think I should remove the transmission while I have it down and have the time I just still feel it is not the problem as most of the ride I never hear anything. I wil post the video on YouTube and post the link soon.
 
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