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Official Ass Tweaker
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I pulled this clip out of a longer ride video because it shows a section where I think rear wheel braking only is appropriate and sensible.

The road is a paved agricultural track, which I'm not even supposed to be on. So we can confidently expect mud on the road. It's also sharply downhill with a couple of quite tight bends, and towards the end, two sections of recently resurfaced roadway which are covered in loose gravel chippings. Most of the ride is in third gear (ex 5), but I grab second for these two sections.

I get on the rear brake at the first bend, about five seconds in, and stay on the rear all the way to the end of the clip. No front brake at all.

The key to rear wheel braking safely down this kind of road is to get all your speed off before you enter the section. With little or no speed, there are no real worries about locking up the rear. Even if you do, it's not difficult to remain in control of the bike.

Feel free to criticize :D

http://195.206.105.25/berle.wmv
 

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Just passing thru
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With such beautiful landscape it would be a shame to ride too quickly anyway. Good tip, Thanks
 

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I pulled this clip out of a longer ride video because it shows a section where I think rear wheel braking only is appropriate and sensible.

The road is a paved agricultural track, which I'm not even supposed to be on. So we can confidently expect mud on the road. It's also sharply downhill with a couple of quite tight bends, and towards the end, two sections of recently resurfaced roadway which are covered in loose gravel chippings. Most of the ride is in third gear (ex 5), but I grab second for these two sections.

I get on the rear brake at the first bend, about five seconds in, and stay on the rear all the way to the end of the clip. No front brake at all.

The key to rear wheel braking safely down this kind of road is to get all your speed off before you enter the section. With little or no speed, there are no real worries about locking up the rear. Even if you do, it's not difficult to remain in control of the bike.

Feel free to criticize :D

http://195.206.105.25/berle.wmv
Well, compared to the knowledge and experience some of you folks have I'm beyond green and maybe should just sit back and be quiet, but it is a relief to learn that you are willing to use the back brake that way. I've used it in some of the twisty down hill sections of roadway we have here after watching the Ride Like A Pro IV dvd. In one ride that stays in my memory back braking a bit all the way made me feel much more in control. The ride went well and I've always wondered if it was "legit" technique.

I'm going to go back again and watch for the way you changed your curve approaches which at first viewing seem to be based upon line of sight through them.
 

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Official Ass Tweaker
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Discussion Starter #4
I'm going to go back again and watch for the way you changed your curve approaches which at first viewing seem to be based upon line of sight through them.
That's right, too. The most likely oncoming traffic is a tractor, or maybe a slow moving car, so it's more important to see them as early as possible than to be in any particular place on the road. Buying a half second or two in visibility allows me to get to the roadside and stop before the tractor reaches me.
 

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Official Ass Tweaker
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Discussion Starter #5
I've always wondered if it was "legit" technique.
This nagged at me, and I think it's a question well worth talking about, though my answer is worth exactly what you paid for it :D

I fully expect this to be contentious, and it's no problem if anyone wants to have a go at me.

Not aimed at you, Lil, and definitely not any kind of criticism, but my view is that technique is by definition neutral. It can't be legit or not legit, and it can't be good or bad. It is just something that can be done.

Whether it's good or bad depends on first:- is it appropriate to the circumstances, and second:- is it well executed.

I think it is more important that technique should be appropriate, or 'right' for the circumstances. Example my stop in the other thread where I completely screwed the execution, but in terms of survival the technique worked.

In my belief, any technique is valid and valuable under the right circumstances. It also helps if you can do it right :D

All technique adds to your armory and gives you a better chance of survival.

A wheelie might be singularly inappropriate in downtown Manhattan rush hour, but might save your life when confronted with a medium size dog.

I even know one man who survived because he laid the bike down - he slid right under a semi trailer without a scratch.

So even deliberately crashing can be a valid technique if the circumstances are appropriate. (Of course, he should never have been there in the first place and he knows it, but nonetheless..........)

In short, anything you can do with a motorcycle is a useful addition to your riding skills, and may one day save your life.

The key is knowing when to try it, and how to do it.

None of which contradicts the basic truth that the best way to avoid trouble is to not be there when it happens.

PS:- Just in case I might come across as some kind of smartass, on that same ride I stalled the damn thing crossing a speed bump at 2mph. What an idiot :D
 

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This nagged at me...
Where I was coming from is that often times people jump on others for the manner in which they handle a motorcycle. I appreciate you perspective on execution very much.
 

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Official Ass Tweaker
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Discussion Starter #7
I understood eventually, Lil. It was just that you got me thinking - not a common experience at my age :D
 

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COB
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In my belief, any technique is valid and valuable under the right circumstances. It also helps if you can do it right :D

A lot of techniques, while valid and work, may not be the most efficient or safe for a given situation. But there is no doubt that there is not any 'one right way' to ride a motorcycle. Professional road racers prove this daily. Different lines, different braking, different speeds through corners. Many different ways.

There are, however some very valid guidelines such as not using a front brake heavily in a corner with sand or gravel. It is much easier for the average rider to recover from a rear wheel slide than a front one I think. Along that line, I think it is in general safer and more efficient to use your front brake more than your rear. Too many new riders are uncomfortable with this.
 

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...Along that line, I think it is in general safer and more efficient to use your front brake more than your rear. Too many new riders are uncomfortable with this.
I think this is so because we are so used being in the cage and working the brake with our foot. We have to learn and practice the front brake.
 

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COB
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Laziness also. It is easier to poke with your foot.
 

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......My Title......
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I pretty much use the same amount of front and rear brake, unless the road has gravel or wet or something. I'm always afraid of the front tire sliding.
 

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Official Ass Tweaker
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Discussion Starter #12
Yeah, I hear you. I touch the rear brake just a little to steady the bike and then hit the front while still keeping the rear on, but on a bad surface I use a lot more rear brake than front.

That's a technique that was taught to me over 40 years ago, and on my 25 year old machines it still works OK :D

My only point here was that in some circumstances it is perfectly valid to use the rear brake only. It's also valid in some circumstances to use the front brake only. I can't think of one offhand, but I'm pretty sure they exist.

I'm also pretty sure we could show the 'front brake only' space cadets circumstances in which we would survive and they would fall off.

Of course, it's also true that they would avoid some accidents that we would not - if we were ever so stupid as to be there in the first place.

Anyone I have failed to offend, please email me at [email protected] :D:D:D
 

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COB
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I touch the rear brake just a little to steady the bike and then hit the front while still keeping the rear on, but on a bad surface I use a lot more rear brake than front.


I'm also pretty sure we could show the 'front brake only' space cadets circumstances in which we would survive and they would fall off.
Two brakes for a reason, I figure. I had to ride my VRSCR with only the front brake for awhile....it was real uncomfortable.
 

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Official Ass Tweaker
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Discussion Starter #15
Two brakes for a reason, I figure. I had to ride my VRSCR with only the front brake for awhile....it was real uncomfortable.
Yeah - many years ago I rode a TriBSA like that, because there was oil getting on to the rear tire - which was 'interesting' :D That was drum brakes also. I went down once on a wet surface doing this, fortunately at only 2mph.

I'm not sure what the physics of it are, it just somehow feels as if touching the rear lightly just before getting on the front seems to steady the bike and make it feel more stable. Maybe because it shifts a little weight forward and pre-loads the front end which lets it do it's job better :confused:
 

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Just passing thru
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Yeah - many years ago I rode a TriBSA like that, because there was oil getting on to the rear tire - which was 'interesting' :D That was drum brakes also. I went down once on a wet surface doing this, fortunately at only 2mph.

I'm not sure what the physics of it are, it just somehow feels as if touching the rear lightly just before getting on the front seems to steady the bike and make it feel more stable. Maybe because it shifts a little weight forward and pre-loads the front end which lets it do it's job better :confused:
Your technique reduces front end dive by lowering the back end first. Most effective.
 

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Official Ass Tweaker
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Discussion Starter #17

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Your technique reduces front end dive by lowering the back end first. Most effective.
So as the back lowers does the weight born by it increase traction thereby creating stability?
 

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So as the back lowers does the weight born by it increase traction thereby creating stability?
Yes so to speak. When the front end dives on hard front braking it transfers alot of weight forward making it easier to lock up the rear. The best way I have found that works for me is to initiate braking with the rear brake then join in with the front brake and slowly transfer all the braking to the front by the time you are stopped.
 

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COB
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The mass of the motorcycle tries to rotate about the wheel that is being braked. That is why you can't do a stoppie with the rear wheel....the front wheel acts as a brace. If you apply the rear brake you get the bike to "settle" and sink a bit.
 
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