[mnerren]

Anyone using the Thundermax system from Zippers for EFI? I am considering buying one to replace a PC III on an 07 TC 96 touring. I have heard nothing but good things about this, does anyone on here have any experience with this?

 

[GAZOO!]

I wonder who is making it for Zippers. They are pretty mechanical and I would be surprised if they all the sudden got a lot of electrical engineering talent in-house.

 

[mnerren]

I wonder who is making it for Zippers. They are pretty mechanical and I would be surprised if they all the sudden got a lot of electrical engineering talent in-house.

Not sure, they have been selling these for quite a while and they seem to work pretty well from what I have read on other forums. I like the idea of never having to pay for dyno time when I change something.

 

[GAZOO!]

I know Max and The Ones That Know over on the 1130cc forum sure do like the VFRID unit. If I don't totally have my head up my orofi, I believe you can add O2 bungs and sensors and it will run closed loop. I know that at the Rally I was hanging out with SmokenJoe watching him play with his VFRID settings at the drag strip. They had a real nice 3d readback feature that helped him pinpoint rpm/load settings that seemed too rich or lean. Only took seconds for him to adjust. I think it is kind of spendy though ($900??). I ran the Screaming Eagle Race Tuner on my VROD but never really messed with it. Another R owner had a map for it running the same exact intake/exhaust mods that I had so I just loaded that one up and ran with it.

Does your Road Glide have O2 sensors already?

 

[mnerren]

Yes, it has 02 sensors.

Thanks, yes I have looked at the VRFI which is specifically for the V-Rod, that same company makes the Daytona TCFI for the Twin Cam 96 and it is the same as the ThunderMax system with a similar price, but the TM seems to be just a tad cheaper. I have found it on ebay for about 700. It also seems to be more popular than the Daytona Twin Tec TCFI from what I have seen so far, but I am still reading and asking questions.

 

[GAZOO!]

Hmmm....I was just looking at it. It has the O2 inputs. They are a joint venture between Zippers and Thunder Max apparently. I've not heard of them before, but then again I am an absoloooote NOOb in the EFI world.

Thunder Max Website

 

[GAZOO!]

Yes, it has 02 sensors.

Thanks, yes I have looked at the VRFI which is specifically for the V-Rod, that same company makes the Daytona TCFI for the Twin Cam 96 and it is the same as the ThunderMax system with a similar price, but the TM seems to be just a tad cheaper. I have found it on ebay for about 700. It also seems to be more popular than the Daytona Twin Tec TCFI from what I have seen so far, but I am still reading and asking questions.

I know when I decided on the SERT I had already bought a Power Commander. I sold the Power Commander on the forum and bought the SERT simply due to the fact that I had ready available knowledge base with people on the 1130cc forum. I am not intelligent enough in the EFI world to be blazing any trails.

 

[rjrivero]

I've been running the Daytona Twintec Twinscan II+ coupled with the WEGO II wideband O2 device.

I must say, it's a pretty neat system. There are some limitations to it, but when you use it in conjunction with the SERT or PCIII, you can fine tune your tune to your riding style.

However, it does have some limitations that you learn to work around.

RJ

 

[GAZOO!]

RJ how fast does the wideband O2 systems react versus the old narrow-band stuff (auto) from a few years back??

 

[mnerren]

I bought the Thundermax EFI auto tune system and will let you know how it goes.

 

[GAZOO!]

Please do!!!

 

[mnerren]

Thundermax review

I finally went ahead about bought the Thunermax EFI Auto Tune system for my 2007 Road Glide. I was using PowerCommander and had a custom map created for it, but it still wasn't perfect. I had some pinging and the power curve just seemed like it was smooth. I had some surging at certain RPMs, so after researching all the closed loop products out there, I decided to go with the Thundermax system from Zippers. The reason I selected this product was number 1, ease of use and I had a chance to check out their product and talk to the guys installing them in Daytona during Biketoberfest. I was also able to find the system on ebay for around $650.00, this was a considerable difference in their MSRP price of $800+.

The removal of the stock ECM went south right away, but I quickly found out there was a work around and it was a common issue. The ECM is mounted to a plastic bracket with two hex screws threaded into a brass fitting in the plastic bracket. Sounds like a good idea until you find out the screws have a thread locker on them and trying to break the thread locker before the brass fitting breaks free inside the plastic is quite the trick. Apparently they don't want you to remove the stock ECM, but after removing the plastic bracket and cutting the screw out with a sawzall I was back on track. You can order the plastic bracket for under $15, so it isn't a big deal. I was able to drill another hole in the bracket when mounting the Thundermax ECM on the now modified bracket, will replace it with a proper bracket when it comes in. The installation process went quite smooth. I did buy an o2 sensor socket, if you are going to do this and need to know which one to buy, get the longest one you can find, the new wide band sensors from Zippers is almost twice as long as the stock ones. On the touring bike there are now issues with clearance when mounting these in. The wires that were supplied had plenty of lenght on them as well. I have heard that the softail models may be very close. Once I had it all installed, I followed the instructions and loaded a supplied map that was based on my engine size, air filter and exhaust options. They ask that you cycle the ignition 3 times before starting the bike up. The bike suprised me and started immediately, something it wasn't doing with the Power Commander for whatever reason. I let it run for about 30 seconds, turned it off and started again, this time I let it run with the monitor feature on in the SmartLink software. I let it run until the engine heads were running around 280 degrees and then shut it down, the bike was now ready to ride. The next morning I took the bike out for about 2 hours and rode it around town, making sure to do stop and go and highway cruising. All I can say is the bike has never ran so well. The pinging is gone, the power band is very smooth and for some reason, the bike doesn't vibrate nearly as much at idle. Not sure if that is because of the idle RPM or it is just running that much better. I took it all the way up near red line several times. There was also no decel poping at all either. I am very happy with this product, the next step is to hook up my notebook to the bike, put it in the saddlebag and record some data and see how it looks. I am still learning all about the tuning features, but so far it feels like it is running great, so I don't think I need to adjust anything. Anyone need to buy a PowerCommander?

 

[rjrivero]

I finally went ahead about bought the Thunermax EFI Auto Tune system for my 2007 Road Glide. I was using PowerCommander and had a custom map created for it, but it still wasn't perfect. I had some pinging and the power curve just seemed like it was smooth. I had some surging at certain RPMs, so after researching all the closed loop products out there, I decided to go with the Thundermax system from Zippers. The reason I selected this product was number 1, ease of use and I had a chance to check out their product and talk to the guys installing them in Daytona during Biketoberfest. I was also able to find the system on ebay for around $650.00, this was a considerable difference in their MSRP price of $800+.

The removal of the stock ECM went south right away, but I quickly found out there was a work around and it was a common issue. The ECM is mounted to a plastic bracket with two hex screws threaded into a brass fitting in the plastic bracket. Sounds like a good idea until you find out the screws have a thread locker on them and trying to break the thread locker before the brass fitting breaks free inside the plactic is quite the trick. Apparently they don't want you to remove the stock ECM, but after removing the plastic bracket and cutting the screw out with a sawzall I was back on track. You can order the plastic bracket for under $15, so it isn't a big deal. I was able to drill another hole in the bracket when mounting the Thundermax ECM on the now modified bracket, will replace it with a proper bracket when it comes in. The installation process went quite smooth. I did buy an o2 sensor socket, if you are going to do this and need to know which one to buy, get the longest one you can find, the new wide band sensors from Zippers is almost twice as long as the stock ones. On the touring bike there are now issues with clearance when mounting these in. The wires that were supplied had plenty of lenght on them as well. I have heard that the softail models may be very close. Once I had it all installed, I followed the instructions and loaded a supplied map that was based on my engine size, air filter and exhaust options. They ask that you cycle the ignition 3 times before starting the bike up. The bike suprised me and started immediately, something it wasn't doing with the Power Commander for whatever reason. I let it run for about 30 seconds, turned it off and started again, this time I let it run with the monitor feature on in the SmartLink software. I let it run until the engine heads were running around 280 degrees and then shut it down, the bike was now ready to ride. The next morning I took the bike out for about 2 hours and rode it around town, making sure to do stop and go and highway cruising. All I can say is the bike has never ran so well. The pinging is gone, the power band is very smooth and for some reason, the bike doesn't vibrate nearly as much at idle. Not sure if that is because of the idle RPM or it is just running that much better. I took it all the way up near red line several times. There was also no decel poping at all either. I am very happy with this product, the next step is to hook up my notebook to the bike, put it in the saddlebag and record some data and see how it looks. I am still learning all about the tuning features, but so far it feels like it is running great, so I don't think I need to adjust anything. Anyone need to buy a PowerCommander?

Great writeup. I'm interested in seeing some screen shots from your data-log feature when you get a chance. Sounds like it's a pretty good system.

I'll be interested to see what your tables are looking like.

It may be worth while to take it to the shop where you had the PCIII map made, and have them do a single pull on the dyno to see what the HP and Torque curves look like down the road.

Thanks for sharing.

RJ

 

[mnerren]

Great writeup. I'm interested in seeing some screen shots from your data-log feature when you get a chance. Sounds like it's a pretty good system.

I'll be interested to see what your tables are looking like.

It may be worth while to take it to the shop where you had the PCIII map made, and have them do a single pull on the dyno to see what the HP and Torque curves look like down the road.

Thanks for sharing.

RJ

I can do some screen shots when I get a chance, there is a demo on their web site at www.thunder-max.com that shows some of the screens.

 

[GAZOO!]

I finally went ahead about bought the Thunermax EFI Auto Tune system for my 2007 Road Glide. ?

Excellent write up, thanks for the info. $650 sure sounds like a good price, I didn't pay but $110 or so less for my SERT.

 

[mnerren]

Excellent write up, thanks for the info. $650 sure sounds like a good price, I didn't pay but $110 or so less for my SERT.

Yeah, I was suprised to find it for such a good price on ebay, I bought it from AmericanClassicMotors, I have bought several items from them in the past. It was actually $659.95 and Zippers sells them for $869.95. When I was talking to the salesman in Daytona he indicated that they would have a version for the V-Rod soon.

 

[mnerren]

Thundermax installation and tuning guide

I promised to do some screen shots of the tuning screens, but found that this doc has everything in it. Here is a link to the pdf doc, the file was too large to post. The software that comes with the ThunderMax EFI controller is call Smart Link.

http://www.thunder-max.com/Support/Instructions/Manuals/309-360 SmartLink IV Tuning Manual.pdf

 

[mnerren]

I just wanted to update this thread. I am still running the thundermax and I did have to make a slight adjustment to the timing. I started to develop a very light pinging that was consistent with a certain rpm range and throttle position. It only happened when I was really getting on it, don't laugh vrod owners. It only has like 75 rwhp and it weighs 800 lbs. But anyway, I talked to the customer service dept at Zippers and was given some pretty good ideas of how to eliminate it without screwing it up. I made some slight adjustments to the timing and it seems to have gone away. It still runs great, much better than the power commander was doing, I can really tell cause a lot of my ridding buddies are starting to think their bikes aren't running very good, it's cause I keep leaving them behind and they are giving it everything they got. They used to be able to keep up, and now they can't seem to do it. I also heard on the sister sight one is coming out for the vrod. Seems to have caused quite the stir over there. I guess there is a lot of new and old members having pissing matches over who should do what. Oh well, some things never change.

 

[BeeRAD56]

I just wanted to update this thread. I am still running the thundermax and I did have to make a slight adjustment to the timing. I started to develop a very light pinging that was consistent with a certain rpm range and throttle position. It only happened when I was really getting on it, don't laugh vrod owners. It only has like 75 rwhp and it weighs 800 lbs. But anyway, I talked to the customer service dept at Zippers and was given some pretty good ideas of how to eliminate it without screwing it up. I made some slight adjustments to the timing and it seems to have gone away. It still runs great, much better than the power commander was doing, I can really tell cause a lot of my ridding buddies are starting to think their bikes aren't running very good, it's cause I keep leaving them behind and they are giving it everything they got. They used to be able to keep up, and now they can't seem to do it. I also heard on the sister sight one is coming out for the vrod. Seems to have caused quite the stir over there. I guess there is a lot of new and old members having pissing matches over who should do what. Oh well, some things never change.

Good stuff Mike, I'll be curious to see what data you log. I installed a Thundermax with Autotune in my wife's 07 Street Bob a year ago and have been extremely happy with it (for a variety of reasons). I plan to install a TM in my 2010 SG once I decide what I'm going to do with pipes and intake.

Before you retard your timing to much you may want to consider fuel quality. The fuel we all buy is marginal at best, especially premium that sits in storage tanks for a long time. Here in Colorado we get to enjoy 10% - 15% ethanol (who know what it really is). Ethanol degrades quickly and takes the octane with it. You may want to consider a fuel treatment. One that I recommend is Starbrite which converts ethanol to octane and makes a huge difference.

just my $0.02 with all the other things to think about