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I thought I'd start a thread for discussions about WW II since it has had a profound effect on where we are today in everything from us being a super power to technology's we use today, to the landscape of today's world.

I'm going to start off with a post that came from another thread rather than hijack that one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Duce View Post
After Pearl Harbor , (and I can't help but think we should have been more prepared / aware it was coming ), the war effort per Roosevelt , focused on Europe 1st using up vast resources that could have ended the Pacific war much sooner IMO.


Duce, according to a lot of sources that have written volumes on the subject, we (the US government) did know. It has been speculated Roosevelt knew and was waiting for it because it was his way out of the Depression. One of the clues was the fact that our carrier force was "out of town" on manuevers. Very lucky/very convenient.
Although we were already pretty much involved in the European part of the war, Hitler did declare war on the US first, and had he been able to overrun Britain, he already had begun a foothold on South America and we would have been effectively shut off and surrounded. Not a good prospect at all.
 

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@ kd5cqt ; He also new that an attack by Japan would get the popular isolationist atmosphere to crumble in one fell swoop. We were already gearing up production to support allies in the European theater , lend lease and so forth. The Nazis sealed there fate when Hitler invaded Russia June 1941, plus he had no real naval power compared to Japan making world domination a bit difficult.
 

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Had Hitler continued south to the oil fields instead of diverting to Moscow, or continued to bomb British airfields instead of diverting to bombing London, They may have changed the outcome of the European theatre.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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@ kd5cqt ; He also new that an attack by Japan would get the popular isolationist atmosphere to crumble in one fell swoop. We were already gearing up production to support allies in the European theater , lend lease and so forth. The Nazis sealed there fate when Hitler invaded Russia June 1941, plus he had no real naval power compared to Japan making world domination a bit difficult.
I think the war ws inevitable anyway, but when Roosevelt shut off the oil and steel to Japan, that pretty much guaranteed something was going to happen. Yeah, he knew, and probably was manipulating the hothead faction of Japan to go for it.

Had Hitler continued south to the oil fields instead of diverting to Moscow, or continued to bomb British airfields instead of diverting to bombing London, They may have changed the outcome of the European theatre.
Hitler was hosting the "Grand Mufti" from Iraq, I believe" and pretty much had the oil sewed up from that region had he had the sense to go that way....but no one has given Adolph much credit for those kinds of smarts.
As for Britain, either Goering didn't know of or thought the British radar warning system was ineffective, whatever, it was his fatal mistake in the Battle of Britain. And of course, give the Brit pilots some credit...they handed the Luftwaffe their asses on a platter in the air campaign.
 

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I believe that Pearl was allowed to happen if you will , as you stated the carriers were out on exercises with out the rest of the fleet at a vary convenient time. Also knowing that a Japanese born dentist residing in Pearl had given specific information on Pearl Harbor to Japan well in advance of the attack.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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Glad to see another history buff here. My old man was a WWII vet, and it took a few years to get him to open up. When I went into the Air Force, he finally figured I'd understand, and we had some long nights of war stories that I cherish in my memory since he is no longer here. But he sure did get me to doing some serious reading on the subject.
 

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I'm sure he had some good stories , I've always been interested in war history and have studied quite a bit about WW II. It was the epic war of wars IMO. Your old man was involved in some thing the world had never seen and never will again.
 

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Had Hitler continued south to the oil fields instead of diverting to Moscow, or continued to bomb British airfields instead of diverting to bombing London, They may have changed the outcome of the European theatre.
Had Hitler allowed his generals to run the war , it would have be vary different. If the Nazis had held the European continent and continued to develop there technology ,and built a Navy the war could have lasted much longer.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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I never understood why it took the Nazi generals so long to try to blow the mad corporal up or just walk in and put a 9mm between the eyes.
We don't know for sure how close they were to getting the bomb, and it would have been bye-bye New York City of Washington had they gotten it. Einstein was pretty sure they were close as was Fermi.
If the generals had gotten to run things, the Normandy Invasion would have been pushed back into the sea ala Dunkirk, and we'd have been suing for peace in a few months after that. Fortunately, those reserves and panzer divisions were held up because our subterfuge had convinced Hitler we had other plans.
 

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His willingness to sacrifice his army's in Russia didn't help him much either, had he not opened the eastern front and had those forces lost in Russia been available on D-Day ..... vary different out come.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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Yep, all of those extra troops on the Atlantic Wall....we be fooked.

gotta call it a night. Early Am. Keep this going. Making me remember all of those books I had to read in college.
 

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Noel
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My isolationist views are tempered by the clear understanding that WWII was an situation where our presence was critical, every war subsequently (I think) we could have gotten by without being involved.

In my humble opinion, going to war to change social and cultural beliefs is where we are overstepping.
 

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My isolationist views are tempered by the clear understanding that WWII was an situation where our presence was critical, every war subsequently (I think) we could have gotten by without being involved.

In my humble opinion, going to war to change social and cultural beliefs is where we are overstepping.
I would agree , 2 of those were fueled directly by what the Russians did in WWII . Could we have gotten by with out being involved , hotly debated.

The Russian campaign ( Stalin's) of 1944 and 1945 was to seize and control territory of opportunity not critical to defeat the Nazis. This then became the Soviet Union / Warsaw Pack , the whole of eastern Europe. Most of these were independent states before WW II. The Russians conquered territory, we liberated countries.

Considering Red China and the Soviet Union covered most of the Asian and a good chunk of the European continents, they were quite threatening at the time.

The cold war had begun. The fear of Communism taking over the world became the new threat to the West. Korea and Vietnam were in the name of stopping Communism's involuntary spread.

Did we overstep our bounds , we saved S Korea , Vietnam was over run as soon as we left, still debated today.

I think it's time to leave Afghanistan and Iraq , I see no more progress with either especially Afghanistan. The 2nd Iraq war should have never been IMO.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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My isolationist views are tempered by the clear understanding that WWII was an situation where our presence was critical, every war subsequently (I think) we could have gotten by without being involved.

In my humble opinion, going to war to change social and cultural beliefs is where we are overstepping.
Totally agree. I think Korea may have helped protect the interests of Japan that would potentially have been threatened, but we definitely were NOT prepared for that conflict.
A good point to ponder is what would have been the result if we had turned Patton and MacArthur loose as they wanted. In the case of Russia, I doubt they could have held us up for long since they were being supplied against Hitler by us. Minus that very heavy supply source, all they had was lots of manpower. With MacArthur pushing up from the east, back at that time the Chinese were not the threat they soon became, Russia would have had some serious problems.
 

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Stalin was no better than Hitler , he murdered his share and turned the war into his conquest with us helping him. I believe Patton was right ,and only a few months after VE day we had the bomb , it was the one time we had far superior fire power to leverage our position.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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Well, just remember that Stalin and Hitler had signed that non-agression pact just before they carved up Poland. Pushing Uncle Joe back into Russia would have completely changed the face of Europe after the war.
 

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Right after the fall of Berlin, Russia continued it's conquest and refused to withdraw from Iran. In early 1946, Truman told Stalin to get out of Iran or "we will drop our Atom Bomb on you". They began their withdrawal within 48 hours. That was true "behind the scenes" diplomacy at it best.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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Too bad we don't have a president with balls to do that today. Instead, we send them checks in the billions of dollars and then ask if that's enough or if we should send more.
 

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Mississippi Cajun
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Truman was a tough S.O.B.-
I wonder what would have happened if Roosevelt had kicked the bucket a little sooner and Truman would have represented us at the Yalta conference. FDR gave Uncle Joe a bit too much as it was, and it took us a lot of years to get that undone.
 
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