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Discussion starter · #41 ·
Clarify something for us:

The title of this thread is No power to fuel pump.

How did you determine that there is no power to fuel pump?
Update. Got the fuel pump running using the bypass, but on this particular bike, you do have to use a ground as well. Fuel line popped off the quick disconnect on the inside of the tank.
Now, here's the dilemma on that one.
Ordered a brand new one from HD. It's shorter than the OEM that came with the bike by nearly 3 inches. End that slips onto the fuel filter port isn't even long enough to reach the opening in the tank, I fought for 3 weekends trying to get that one they sold me on and it would not go. Tried using the original one but it slipped back off so that's going to be an issue.
Other than trying to use the one HD sold me, is there options for the tubing from the filter down to the quick disconnect?
 
Discussion starter · #42 ·
Update. Got the fuel pump running using the bypass, but on this particular bike, you do have to use a ground as well. Fuel line popped off the quick disconnect on the inside of the tank.
Now, here's the dilemma on that one.
Ordered a brand new one from HD. It's shorter than the OEM that came with the bike by nearly 3 inches. End that slips onto the fuel filter port isn't even long enough to reach the opening in the tank, I fought for 3 weekends trying to get that one they sold me on and it would not go. Tried using the original one but it slipped back off so that's going to be an issue.
Other than trying to use the one HD sold me, is there options for the tubing from the filter down to the quick disconnect?
Update. J&P Cycles sells a Drag Specialties unit to replace it. Waiting on J&P to get back to me on the actual length since they didn't bother to list that info. lol
 
Discussion starter · #44 · (Edited)
You quoted my post but did not answer any of the questions I asked you in that post...
Actually, I gave you more information than you asked for. Bad habit, but thought it might save some time. I determined the fuel pump had no power because 1: I could run in on ether only, 2: Using a test light indicated no power at any of the 4 wires that plugged into the sending unit/fuel pump housing below the dash. I was told you couldn't check it that way because it's only a second or so it get's power.
Since then, thanks to help from here, I figured out how to bypass the P&A Relay and get power to the pump. It does work. Just need to replace the Fuel Pickup Tube. One HD sells is too short by about 4" in comparison to the original.
Since it runs fine on ether, spark isn't the issue, it's a fuel issue. EFI systems have to have a certain amount of pressure from the pump to activate the injectors. Once I get the pickup tube replaced, I can check that one off.
I try to be as descriptive as I can, but I'm not perfect, I do miss things.
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
You quoted my post but did not answer any of the questions I asked you in that post...
At the moment, the bigger issue is why that P&A fuse keeps blowing. I never removed the handle bars nor anything that's on them. So don't know how I could have shorted the switches. But I suppose it's a possibility.
Could the BCM be shorted out? I have no idea how to even test that one.
 
The BCM is not part of the P&A circuit, it is not causing the fuse to blow.

The likely cause is the wire is chafed and touching ground somewhere.

The wire is Violet/Blue.
 
FYI the replacement check valve / hose assembly is shorter that the original hose. The original long hose could rub on the inside of the tank causing pin holes in the hose resulting in a fuel pressure loss. The bonnet needs to be partially installed into the tank before the hose can be connected to the filter. Also those fuel hoses are easier to install if the clamp end is carefully heated with a heat gun to soften it up prior to installation. Put the clamp on the filter first then slide the hose on.
 
Discussion starter · #48 ·
FYI the replacement check valve / hose assembly is shorter that the original hose. The original long hose could rub on the inside of the tank causing pin holes in the hose resulting in a fuel pressure loss. The bonnet needs to be partially installed into the tank before the hose can be connected to the filter. Also those fuel hoses are easier to install if the clamp end is carefully heated with a heat gun to soften it up prior to installation. Put the clamp on the filter first then slide the hose on.
I tried that. I don't have a large rectangular plate, I have a hole about the size of my hand to fit all this in. With the new line, the end that slips on to the fuel filter just reaches the edge of the opening. I can't get the filter, plate AND my hand in there at the same time. I've tried using crooked needle nose pliers but there's just not enough room with it being that short. 2 more inches would have a made a world of difference.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
The BCM is not part of the P&A circuit, it is not causing the fuse to blow.

The likely cause is the wire is chafed and touching ground somewhere.

The wire is Violet/Blue.
Sorry if I somehow insinuated that the P&A circuit went thru the BCM. The Fuel pump power is however. That's why I was mentioning it.
Now, seems a bit odd to me, but if the P&A fuse is blowing, but not connected to the BCM, yet the Fuel pump is, how is that affecting fuel pump power? Seems they would be separate circuits if that's the case.
 
Sorry if I somehow insinuated that the P&A circuit went thru the BCM. The Fuel pump power is however. That's why I was mentioning it.
Now, seems a bit odd to me, but if the P&A fuse is blowing, but not connected to the BCM, yet the Fuel pump is, how is that affecting fuel pump power? Seems they would be separate circuits if that's the case.
Just saying from my desk here with no reference books, they're all out at my shop.
The fuel pump is not in the BCM circuit, the fuel pump is in the EMS circuit, 'Engine Management System'.
The P&A fuse supplies B+ to accessories that aren't required for the normal vehicle operation. Pull the P&A fuse from the fuse box and you should still be able to ride your motorcycle home with the lights on !

If the OP's bike doesn't run with the P&A fuse unplugged or burnt out then there's something else wrong that the OP hasn't mentioned ?

Note: EFI Harleys do not have fuel delivery or tank sensors except for fuel level, no fuel system codes that I'm aware of. Maybe the latest and greatest modern Harleys may have reached that pinnacle by now, I haven't seen that yet ! They still use bobbers with rheostats in the tanks for fuel level, plus the ECM can calculate miles ... boo yah !
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
Just saying from my desk here with no reference books, they're all out at my shop.
The fuel pump is not in the BCM circuit, the fuel pump is in the EMS circuit, 'Engine Management System'.
The P&A fuse supplies B+ to accessories that aren't required for the normal vehicle operation. Pull the P&A fuse from the fuse box and you should still be able to ride your motorcycle home with the lights on !

If the OP's bike doesn't run with the P&A fuse unplugged or burnt out then there's something else wrong that the OP hasn't mentioned ?

Note: EFI Harleys do not have fuel delivery or tank sensors except for fuel level, no fuel system codes that I'm aware of. Maybe the latest and greatest modern Harleys may have reached that pinnacle by now, I haven't seen that yet ! They still use bobbers with rheostats in the tanks for fuel level, plus the ECM can calculate miles ... boo yah !
If you would look at the wiring diagrams, Like I did, you would clearly see a box labeled BCM on the bottom of one of the diagrams. There is also a label for Fuel Pump Power on what I think is pin F4.
Main Harness FLH (2 of 3): 2018 Touring (with Fairing)
 
You are correct. BCM pin F4 is power to the R/BN wire at connect 141B.
So ... is it your conclusion that the BCM is at fault ?
BCM # 41000341F $196.99 at Ronnie's H-D.
The only way that I'm aware of to properly diagnose the ECM and BCM systems are with the Digital Tech shop computer.
 
Sorry my post #47 is wrong, my brain was stuck on the 2000 Ultra at my shop.
Also when testing electricals be aware that there are two different ground circuits. Black wires and Black with Green Striped wires. Not to be mixed up. The BK/GN is a clean ground circuit, no switching devices or motors in that circuit. Black is the standard or dirty ground circuit.

Does the OP have a Thundermax ECM in place of the original ?
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
Sorry my post #47 is wrong, my brain was stuck on the 2000 Ultra at my shop.
Also when testing electricals be aware that there are two different ground circuits. Black wires and Black with Green Striped wires. Not to be mixed up. The BK/GN is a clean ground circuit, no switching devices or motors in that circuit. Black is the standard or dirty ground circuit.

Does the OP have a Thundermax ECM in place of the original ?
Yes I do.
 
Then THAT may have something to do with the fuel pump not powering up. The Harley ECM and BCM are a married pair. I'm not familiar enough with the Thundermax ECM and how it marries up to the BCM.
Makes sense tho ! Steal a Harley, buy a Thundermax, put it in and off ya go. That ain't how it works, there's more to that process. The BCM and ECM have to marry before they function together.
 
Discussion starter · #56 · (Edited)
Then THAT may have something to do with the fuel pump not powering up. The Harley ECM and BCM are a married pair. I'm not familiar enough with the Thundermax ECM and how it marries up to the BCM.
Makes sense tho ! Steal a Harley, buy a Thundermax, put it in and off ya go. That ain't how it works, there's more to that process. The BCM and ECM have to marry before they function together.
Ok, well, that's not exactly how it went down. I had the problem with the OEM ECM. If you read the comments I'd made earlier, the bike started up just fine. I went back a week later, battery was dead. Used a battery charger, not a tender, on trickle charge. Battery and the ECM BOTH got hot. Battery was charged enough it cranked good, but wouldn't start. Bought a battery, put it in and same problem. With the ECM and Battery both getting as hot as they did and now it not starting, I thought I might have cooked the ECM.
I was wanting to add a tuner anyways, I saw ThunderMax made an ECM/Tuner and picked one up.
When I first plugged in the laptop to it after installing it, it did have me put in my VIN number. But, I didn't see any information in there as far as marrying the new ECM to the BCM.
Is there a way to do that?
 
I reread your previous posts and that's where I caught the part about the ECM. If you still have the stock ECM plug it in to see what happens. If the engine starts and runs then there's more to getting the Thundermax and BCM married.
Installing the VIN into the Thundermax locks that unit to your bike. I'm not sure about marrying the two, I'd think there'd be instructions about that along with the unit. The shop computer is required to marry stock Harley ECM and BCM and older ECM and TSSM units.
 
Discussion starter · #58 ·
I reread your previous posts and that's where I caught the part about the ECM. If you still have the stock ECM plug it in to see what happens. If the engine starts and runs then there's more to getting the Thundermax and BCM married.
Installing the VIN into the Thundermax locks that unit to your bike. I'm not sure about marrying the two, I'd think there'd be instructions about that along with the unit. The shop computer is required to marry stock Harley ECM and BCM and older ECM and TSSM units.
I'll try that when I get back this weekend, but the ThunderMax comes with it's own Oxy Sensors. Am I going to have to change those back out for the OEM ones just to try it?
 
Discussion starter · #59 ·
I reread your previous posts and that's where I caught the part about the ECM. If you still have the stock ECM plug it in to see what happens. If the engine starts and runs then there's more to getting the Thundermax and BCM married.
Installing the VIN into the Thundermax locks that unit to your bike. I'm not sure about marrying the two, I'd think there'd be instructions about that along with the unit. The shop computer is required to marry stock Harley ECM and BCM and older ECM and TSSM units.
Just tried swapping out the Thundermax ECM/Tuner for the OEM. Same results. Runs just fine on Ether, but fuel pump wont turn on. I can still run power to the pump with a bypass, but doesn't run well that way.
 
Just tried swapping out the Thundermax ECM/Tuner for the OEM. Same results. Runs just fine on Ether, but fuel pump wont turn on. I can still run power to the pump with a bypass, but doesn't run well that way.
In that case I have to suspect the Thundermax and BCM aren't communicating ! The reasoning behind this is because the Harley security system (BCM) shuts down the fuel system to thwart theft attempts. It's the last line of defense ! ECM and BCM have to be married, they have to recognize each other.
I would place a call to Thundermax tech and ask them WTF ?
 
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